Harley Riders gather

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by Jess1717@Nov 22 2006, 08:24 AM

So excited.... will be collecting my new ride a few hours later

congratulation, ride safe

[Jess1717]

Originally posted by gohjohan@Nov 22 2006, 09:10 AM

It's something to do with the date, isn't it? Which is why you chose today to pick it up?

Yep!!! Hopefully wont rain today.... been raining in the afternoon.....

 

Thanks guys! Hope to meet up for some gathering!

[gohjohan]

Originally posted by Jess1717@Nov 22 2006, 10:24 AM

Yep!!! Hopefully wont rain today.... been raining in the afternoon.....

 

Thanks guys! Hope to meet up for some gathering!

Same. I hope it won't rain. Back to gathering, is it tomorrow? I remember that NormalAspirated is organising 1 on regular Thursdays at the Alexander dealership

[nights]

Originally posted by sgstarrider@Nov 16 2006, 01:17 AM

Duh, juz two questions. Only 2.

 

1. Why Japanese brands try to follow the HD look for their bikes in this class?

 

2. Why HD create liquid-cooled V-rod and their new models enjin come with rubber inserts?

 

FYI - when the japs first market their cruiser models, the americans really ridicule them & those (only a handful of buyers) who ride these cruisers as "Japanese Junks".

Now look at wats the rage among the americans for these type of motocycles?

 

Was flipping back pages when I saw the posting. Are you replying to Ah Fai or? Anyway, I have some comments here.

 

The Japanese never intend to follow the Harley Davidson model looks but rather, the American cruiser. Instead, Harley Davidson had replicated their designs from the early British and later mops up their designs from various manufacturers like the Indians, Pierce, Merkel, Thor and Schickel etc. All these manufacturers were having similar designs except for the construction of their engines (yep. Harley Davidson even copy BMW engine and technology for their XA model) and it was soon to seen that most of these manufacturers moves on to other inventions (e.g. automobiles etc). Of course, eventually, only two motorcycle camps remains due to the great depression at one point of time, both Harley Davidson and Indian tried to distinguish themselves from the competition. A short poem (just for a laugh) during the rivalry war:

 

"You'll never wear out

The Indian Scout,

or its brother,

The Indian Chief.

They're built like rocks

To take hard knocks.

It's the Harleys

That cause the grief."

 

What the Japanese is trying to replicate is the popular trend that stir up the community with heavy weighted cruiser style so, instead of calling them copycat of “Harley Davidson” designs, I would rather have the Japs copying the “American motorcycle” for replacement of the latter. Remember, the Japanese are hard thinker business people who believe in newer technology sells and what is best for their business entry into America, Euro and other Asia countries. They did their best in distinguishing themselves from the Harley Davidson by developing engine technology of their own distinction.

 

PS: It is clear that parts and accessories for Harley Davidson motorcycle would never fits on a Japanese cruiser without a modification.

[nights]

Originally posted by sgstarrider@Nov 16 2006, 02:08 AM

He hee,

when i buy a Harley spore, i noe i belong to a big group worldwide.

HARLEY WORLDWIDE

 

when i buy metric cruiser in spore, i m alone.... ....(literally)...BUT

NOT in US or Europe. there i belong to a big group too. Group made up of individual brands of Hondas, yamahas, Kawas, suzukis.

Valkyrie club

Vstars

Honda shadow club

Dutch Shadow club

aus vstar

suzuki club

vulcan club

vulcan club again

worldwide vulcan riders

dragstar club

tis is how u ride

cruisers in a grup

 

to name a few...............

Ha ha. I have to agree that we do not have a distinct group for each Japanese makes but, do give a thought of our small island, population and category uptake. Practically, the large amount of numbers were make up of street and sport bikes with the scrambler following closely behind over the years for off-road sake, the cruiser though cease down over the years due to the setting up of Harley Davidson Singapore which, explain why there is a lack of Japanese cruiser market. Beside, there is an affinity with the other person whom you say “Hi” to each other as we are all Harley riders. Camaraderie effect I would say.

 

My personal take is this. If you are not riding a Harley, no big deal about it, you could always join other local riding clubs (e.g. Militia Rider, Kruzer, Storm Rider, Team 27 etc.) or even local bike group from SBF. This is Singapore and just like its own racist equality teaching, I don’t see how any clubs would reject someone riding a Japanese or Korean cruiser or nor do I see it as an affair for a club to have a distinct makes and model for the camaraderie effect.

 

Cheers!

[nights]

Originally posted by sgstarrider@Nov 16 2006, 01:17 AM

Duh, juz two questions. Only 2.

 

1. Why Japanese brands try to follow the HD look for their bikes in this class?

 

2. Why HD create liquid-cooled V-rod and their new models enjin come with rubber inserts?

 

FYI - when the japs first market their cruiser models, the americans really ridicule them & those (only a handful of buyers) who ride these cruisers as "Japanese Junks".

Now look at wats the rage among the americans for these type of motocycles?

 

Just to add-on, the only Japanese manufacturer who ever had to pay for patent design is Kawasaki for their model “Dr1fter” which, implement the Indian fenders design.

 

For Harley Davidson, they managed to have their V-twin (piston placed at 45 degree angle) engine firing sequence design patented which, is why we are seeing the Japanese makes with 52 degree angle tandem V-twin. As for the distinctive sound of a Harley Davidson motorcycle engine which, they tried to file for trademark was unsuccessful and eventually withdraw after six years of legal fight with nine other competitors (4 from Japanese and 5 from American manufacturers).

[nights]

Originally posted by Jess1717@Nov 22 2006, 08:24 AM

So excited.... will be collecting my new ride a few hours later

Congratulation to your new ride! Ride safe and cya on the road!

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Nov 22 2006, 11:50 AM

Just to add-on, the only Japanese manufacturer who ever had to pay for patent design is Kawasaki for their model “Dr1fter” which, implement the Indian fenders design.

 

For Harley Davidson, they managed to have their V-twin (piston placed at 45 degree angle) engine firing sequence design patented which, is why we are seeing the Japanese makes with 52 degree angle tandem V-twin. As for the distinctive sound of a Harley Davidson motorcycle engine which, they tried to file for trademark was unsuccessful and eventually withdraw after six years of legal fight with nine other competitors (4 from Japanese and 5 from American manufacturers).

Very informative

 

I never ride a Indian before, wonder if they sound like the Harley-Davidson...

 

So the H-D did try to file for trademark of their distinctive sound, even thought they are unsuccessful for legal fight, I still doubt that a japanese cruiser sounds (& shake) like a H-D.

[Ah Fai]

Just wondering that the H-D sportster doesn't have fan & Coolant cooling system, it must be very hot while travelling in Singapore city area, where there are many traffic lights... will the engine ever get over-heat?

[nights]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Nov 22 2006, 02:12 PM

Very informative

 

I never ride a Indian before, wonder if they sound like the Harley-Davidson...

 

So the H-D did try to file for trademark of their distinctive sound, even thought they are unsuccessful for legal fight, I still doubt that a japanese cruiser sounds (& shake) like a H-D.

The Indian is using a 100 cubic-inch (1638cc) 45 degree Powerplus 100 V-twin engine. The signature feature of the engine is its serrated, billet-aluminum rocker boxes and stout, round cylinders that are impossible to ignore.

 

- 42mm Mikuni “flat-side” carburetor, smooth response, excellent power

- 3 7/8” bore with a 4 ¼” stroke give the 100ci displacement and exceptional low-end torque for outstanding roll-on performance (Note: longer stroke provides increased torque)

- Hydraulic valve lifters, never need adjustment

- 45-degree V-twin with a 26 lb. crankshaft and H-beam connecting rods

- Gerotor oil pump system ensures optimum lubrication and scavenging for long term reliability

 

More information, pictures and sound of the motorcycles and engine is available at link below.

 

http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/

 

For information, there is an Indian (Scout or Chief?) put up as part of deco in one of shop or cafe in Singapore (was it Orchard or Holland Village?) but, I couldn't remember the exact location. Maybe those who know could fill in and share with others.

 

In fact the Japanese cruiser doesn’t sound like the Harley Davidson motorcycle duly to the contribution of the exhaust pipe from the Harley people themselves. Research from the court case has shown that all V-twin engine sound alike regardless of the degree angle the piston is placed which, is why Harley Davidson never won the court case for six years and their eventually dropping of application to trademark the sound.

 

Shake or rumbling as most people call it, is regards as a distinct feature of the Harley Davidson motorcycle. Like the old saying, if it isn’t shaking, it isn’t a Harley. And this is heritage but, Japanese cruiser isn’t going into the path of heritage, they are into generalizing and pilot accommodation should be comfort with assurance of low maintenance engine long life span.

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Nov 22 2006, 04:02 PM

The Indian is using a 100 cubic-inch (1638cc) 45 degree Powerplus 100 V-twin engine. The signature feature of the engine is its serrated, billet-aluminum rocker boxes and stout, round cylinders that are impossible to ignore.

 

- 42mm Mikuni “flat-side” carburetor, smooth response, excellent power

- 3 7/8” bore with a 4 ¼” stroke give the 100ci displacement and exceptional low-end torque for outstanding roll-on performance (Note: longer stroke provides increased torque)

- Hydraulic valve lifters, never need adjustment

- 45-degree V-twin with a 26 lb. crankshaft and H-beam connecting rods

- Gerotor oil pump system ensures optimum lubrication and scavenging for long term reliability

 

More information, pictures and sound of the motorcycles and engine is available at link below.

 

http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/

 

For information, there is an Indian (Scout or Chief?) put up as part of deco in one of shop or cafe in Singapore (was it Orchard or Holland Village?) but, I couldn't remember the exact location. Maybe those who know could fill in and share with others.

Thanks for the web-page, just browse through & seems like there are only a few indian models (7 of them?)

 

So I assume that there are no indian rolling in Singapore? Cause I never saw one before on Singapore road.

[nights]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Nov 22 2006, 02:24 PM

Just wondering that the H-D sportster doesn't have fan & Coolant cooling system, it must be very hot while travelling in Singapore city area, where there are many traffic lights... will the engine ever get over-heat?

Singapore may have many traffic lights and junctions but, average time of waiting is fairly short unlike our Malaysia counterpart. In short, the engine should not overheat if you maintain a good oil exchange which would prevent seizure of the engine as well.

[nights]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Nov 22 2006, 04:13 PM

Thanks for the web-page, just browse through & seems like there are only a few indian models (7 of them?)

 

So I assume that there are no indian rolling in Singapore? Cause I never saw one before on Singapore road.

YepYep. Only 7 models and that is what I called heritage thru the rolling years. Same goes for Harley Davidson as well until the release of the V-Rod (finally a more furturistic model to pull away for a change). Like I mentioned, there was one Indian bought into Singapore but, only for display purpose. Otherwise, there is only one authorized replica running on our road which is, Kawasaki Dr1fter 1500. Probably, you would catch some fake replica of Steeds and Vulcans 400 on the road with the distinctive fenders and Indian ornament.

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Nov 22 2006, 04:02 PM

In fact the Japanese cruiser doesn’t sound like the Harley Davidson motorcycle duly to the contribution of the exhaust pipe from the Harley people themselves. Research from the court case has shown that all V-twin engine sound alike regardless of the degree angle the piston is placed which, is why Harley Davidson never won the court case for six years and their eventually dropping of application to trademark the sound.

 

Shake or rumbling as most people call it, is regards as a distinct feature of the Harley Davidson motorcycle. Like the old saying, if it isn’t shaking, it isn’t a Harley. And this is heritage but, Japanese cruiser isn’t going into the path of heritage, they are into generalizing and pilot accommodation should be comfort with assurance of low maintenance engine long life span.

So when Japanese Cruiser installed with after market exhaust, do they will sound like a H-D? Then H-D must have spend lots of money to the 6 years court case.

 

I also find that the Japanese Cruiser are less rumble, never see their engine shake as much as a H-D, so I think the Japanese Cruiser's handling are finer

 

I ever heard from a friend that due to H-D engine characteristic, the prolong period of the shake/rumble from the engine will cause oil leakage (or oil seal loosen?), I don't know its true or not, but from what I see how the engine rumble in idle speed... I am still in doubt.

 

From what I have read from a H-D cataloge, I still believe that a H-D is very durable.

 

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Fai_photo/WTBT-shirt023.jpg

 

May I quote: "By 1912, Number One, with the same basic 3 hp set-up you see pictured here, had tuckered out 5 owners, notched over 160,000 kilometers and was still operation with its original bearings"

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Nov 22 2006, 04:21 PM

Singapore may have many traffic lights and junctions but, average time of waiting is fairly short unlike our Malaysia counterpart. In short, the engine should not overheat if you maintain a good oil exchange which would prevent seizure of the engine as well.

Regarding the engine oil exchange, a friend has once told me that the H-D uses their personal type of engine oil, not a product from Shell or Esso. And the H-D engine oil is cheaper too. (Hope I never heard it wrongly )

 

If I see the traffic light in Malaysia where they have a counter reads more than 100, I think I will off my engine.

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Nov 22 2006, 04:31 PM

YepYep. Only 7 models and that is what I called heritage thru the rolling years. Same goes for Harley Davidson as well until the release of the V-Rod (finally a more furturistic model to pull away for a change). Like I mentioned, there was one Indian bought into Singapore but, only for display purpose. Otherwise, there is only one authorized replica running on our road which is, Kawasaki Dr1fter 1500. Probably, you would catch some fake replica of Steeds and Vulcans 400 on the road with the distinctive fenders and Indian ornament.

Wow, if ever one lucky guy ride a "real" Indain in Singapore, definately an eye-catcher. And seems like all Indian are big bore cruiser, where H-D has got sportster, V-rod & hard-core tourer, more choices.

 

Definately H-D has got a special characteristic is their excellent wide range of Genuine motor accessories, so I should assume that Indian also do have their range of after-market custom accessories.

[nights]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Nov 22 2006, 04:37 PM

So when Japanese Cruiser installed with after market exhaust, do they will sound like a H-D? Then H-D must have spend lots of money to the 6 years court case.

 

I also find that the Japanese Cruiser are less rumble, never see their engine shake as much as a H-D, so I think the Japanese Cruiser's handling are finer

 

I ever heard from a friend that due to H-D engine characteristic, the prolong period of the shake/rumble from the engine will cause oil leakage (or oil seal loosen?), I don't know its true or not, but from what I see how the engine rumble in idle speed... I am still in doubt.

 

From what I have read from a H-D cataloge, I still believe that a H-D is very durable.

 

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Fai_photo/WTBT-shirt023.jpg

 

May I quote: "By 1912, Number One, with the same basic 3 hp set-up you see pictured here, had tuckered out 5 owners, notched over 160,000 kilometers and was still operation with its original bearings"

Of course not, every aftermarket exhaust pipe is patented thus, only when use with the correct exhaust pipe would achieve the same roaring sound as the Harley. As taken from the case, “Individual riders can tweak their exhaust systems to change the tone and volume. For example, the thundering roar common to many Harleys is produced by attaching straight exhaust pipes to the engine and skipping the muffler entirely.”

 

Most Japanese cruiser has a dual-pin crankshaft with two primary shaft mounted balance weights eliminating harsh engine vibration. Their engine mounting system uses carefully matched hangers and rubber mounts to eliminate unwanted vibration, while preserving the powerful character of the engine’s V-twin design.

 

From what I have gathered from my acquaintances who have ridden Harleys for a few years, I was told that Harley is a pretty well-known slick machine, meaning frequent healthy oil change is necessary. For older model, base gasket leaking is a common sight too and I won’t be surprise with all that rumbling going on that the nuts and bolts is your past time tightening job. But of course, every motorcycle manufacturers would assure and guarantee that the engine would last for at least good ten years under normal environment running and this applied to all makes of bikes.

[nights]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Nov 22 2006, 04:43 PM

Regarding the engine oil exchange, a friend has once told me that the H-D uses their personal type of engine oil, not a product from Shell or Esso. And the H-D engine oil is cheaper too. (Hope I never heard it wrongly )

 

If I see the traffic light in Malaysia where they have a counter reads more than 100, I think I will off my engine.

I have a feeling that Harley Davidson oil has an affiliation with Amsoil engine oil but, that’s just me. Cheaper? Ha ha...

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Nov 22 2006, 05:45 PM

Of course not, every aftermarket exhaust pipe is patented thus, only when use with the correct exhaust pipe would achieve the same roaring sound as the Harley. As taken from the case, “Individual riders can tweak their exhaust systems to change the tone and volume. For example, the thundering roar common to many Harleys is produced by attaching straight exhaust pipes to the engine and skipping the muffler entirely.”

A sportster engine already sounds good, imagine after installation of "screaming eagles" after market exhaust pipes, must be much louder.

 

Wonder ever pass the LTA inspection

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Nov 22 2006, 05:45 PM

From what I have gathered from my acquaintances who have ridden Harleys for a few years, I was told that Harley is a pretty well-known slick machine, meaning frequent healthy oil change is necessary. For older model, base gasket leaking is a common sight too and I won’t be surprise with all that rumbling going on that the nuts and bolts is your past time tightening job. But of course, every motorcycle manufacturers would assure and guarantee that the engine would last for at least good ten years under normal environment running and this applied to all makes of bikes.

Seems like it will cost more to maintain a H-D engine than the other Japanese Cruiser.

 

I think only a few will keep a bike for more than 10 years, since newer & more powerful bikes come out every year, the temptation is great (to me)

[nights]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Nov 22 2006, 04:51 PM

Wow, if ever one lucky guy ride a "real" Indain in Singapore, definately an eye-catcher. And seems like all Indian are big bore cruiser, where H-D has got sportster, V-rod & hard-core tourer, more choices.

 

Definately H-D has got a special characteristic is their excellent wide range of Genuine motor accessories, so I should assume that Indian also do have their range of after-market custom accessories.

I guess you would mean models? For Indian, they have the Chief of five different series to choose from and followed by the Sprit and Scout. Not many I would say but stay true to its heritage. After all, how classic could a motorcycle go as far? Yep. They too have their wide range of accessories as well.

 

For Harleys, it’s a mixed feeling. In my opinion, not too difficult to distinguish the categories based on the models they have in store and it is likelihood they are still evolving.

 

In fact, talking about genuine accessories, most brands would have their own range of accessories to go with like the Kawasaki, Honda, Victory, and Triumph etc. Thus, what Harley Davidson has to offer the public, so is the rest of companies. It’s a tight competition but Harley Davidson would have an upper hand if it is south Asia we are implying to.

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Nov 22 2006, 07:06 PM

I guess you would mean models? For Indian, they have the Chief of five different series to choose from and followed by the Sprit and Scout. Not many I would say but stay true to its heritage. After all, how classic could a motorcycle go as far? Yep. They too have their wide range of accessories as well.

Yes, I noticed the wording in their homepage, the first motorcycles in USA, fierce

[Ah Fai]

Originally posted by nights@Nov 22 2006, 07:06 PM

In fact, talking about genuine accessories, most brands would have their own range of accessories to go with like the Kawasaki, Honda, Victory, and Triumph etc. Thus, what Harley Davidson has to offer the public, so is the rest of companies. It’s a tight competition but Harley Davidson would have an upper hand if it is south Asia we are implying to.

To me the H-D genuine accessories are freaking expensive, for a very small metal piece with H-D logo cost around S$80+... But their range is awesome.

 

So H-D has an upper hand in South East Asia, is it because we are less influence from the Japanese due to our location?

[Ah Fai]

Don't laugh at what I am going to say

 

I love the H-D sportster, unfortunately, it was introduced on the year 1957, which is the year of roaster according to Chinese Calender. Well... I just doesn't click with roaster in Chinese Calender (I must have been thinking too much )

 

How to erase that thought

[gohjohan]

Originally posted by Ah Fai@Nov 22 2006, 07:45 PM

Don't laugh at what I am going to say

 

I love the H-D sportster, unfortunately, it was introduced on the year 1957, which is the year of roaster according to Chinese Calender. Well... I just doesn't click with roaster in Chinese Calender (I must have been thinking too much )

 

How to erase that thought

Start riding it!