Rear Brake Locked during Hard Braking

[xcel]

I just serviced my rear brake recently (disc type) and the gripping became too effective during raining days. I encountered several occasions when I applied the rear brake hard, it would be locked and causing my rear tire skid left and right Thank GOD no car beside and I managed to slow down.

 

Any idea how to solve this problem?

 

1) Apply front brake harder than rear brake?

2) Use engine brake? (It's quite unlikely during emergency brake though)

3) Buy a machine with ABS braking system?

[BlackDawn]

Don't brake so hard. Problem solved.

[tangmulong4488]

try intermediate braking. Tap release tap release.

[natgw]

pray to God more...

[Constructicon]

I just serviced my rear brake recently (disc type) and the gripping became too effective during raining days. I encountered several occasions when I applied the rear brake hard, it would be locked and causing my rear tire skid left and right Thank GOD no car beside and I managed to slow down.

 

Any idea how to solve this problem?

 

1) Apply front brake harder than rear brake?

2) Use engine brake? (It's quite unlikely during emergency brake though)

3) Buy a machine with ABS braking system?

 

Same happened to me when i got my new ride some time ago. just try to adjust your braking force. Raining, go sloooower and use more engine brake. Grabbing any brakes during rain is very dangerous.

[endlessloop]

The best tactic really is Avoidance.

It may sound obvious. But if you can ride in a way that minimises need for hard braking, you minimise the chance of self-skid. To know how, do read Street Smart. There is a wealth of knowledge there.

http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85788&page=30

 

I have also already wrote in there about how to be able to brake hard and still retain control in an emergency.

 

And to be able to Avoid, you need to be able to Detect early. If you can detect early, you avoid tricky situations. And you avoid the need to jam brake. And you avoid potential accident with other road users or self-skid.

 

Read up on HOV (Hazard Oriented Vision) in Street Smart.

[Jfor_Jimmy1986]

i thinkk adjustment of the brake pedal will solve ur prob..

[farish]

use what school taught

 

70 % front brake

 

30 % rear brake

[aRcHeR]

use what school taught

 

70 % front brake

 

30 % rear brake

 

so how do you actually measure 70/30? i would like to know, seriously..

[xcel]

Gents,

 

Appreciate your prompt advices. Yup. All indeed useful suggestions and learn quite a lot from here

 

In fact I would go slower during raining days, especially when cornering. I agree that hard braking can be avoided in many circumstances by keeping a safe distance. But there is 1 which is quite difficult to estimate, i.e. Traffic Light! In many cases I would slow down when approaching traffic lights. But my personal experience is a lot drivers behind would want to beat the traffic lights (esp taxi) and therefore tailgating me like hell.

 

Some ideas that came from my mind:

 

1) Why can't we have a count down system so that we can estimate our speed when approaching traffic light?

 

2) Is it possible to develop a pre-configured braking system so that a 70/30 braking force distributed to the disc? Meaning to say, the hand level brake can control front and rear brake. Isn't it safer?

[Raptor]

Wet roads, ride slower. It is only common sense to do that.

 

People tailgate you, keep left give way to them. It only means either they are travelling too fast or you are too slow.

 

With regards to the rear brake.... adjust more play into the rear brake pedal, meaning there should be more foot movement on the pedal before the rear brake engages.

 

And frankly, for higher speed riding, eg on the tracks.... touching the rear brakes is a no no. Asking to crash only.

[Refugee]

I just serviced my rear brake recently (disc type) and the gripping became too effective during raining days. I encountered several occasions when I applied the rear brake hard, it would be locked and causing my rear tire skid left and right Thank GOD no car beside and I managed to slow down.

 

Any idea how to solve this problem?

 

1) Apply front brake harder than rear brake?

2) Use engine brake? (It's quite unlikely during emergency brake though)

3) Buy a machine with ABS braking system?

 

use front blake can liao lor

[aRcHeR]

1) Why can't we have a count down system so that we can estimate our speed when approaching traffic light?

 

used to have at the bugis junction JUNCTION previously, but was taken down. trial basis..

 

den 1-2 years later, we have LTA awarding some award to ngee ann for coming up with such an invention/idea with green/red light countdown.

[Constructicon]

used to have at the bugis junction JUNCTION previously, but was taken down. trial basis..

 

den 1-2 years later, we have LTA awarding some award to ngee ann for coming up with such an invention/idea with green/red light countdown.

 

I think the countdown is good lah, esp at THAT junction.

Better than going in blind. Of cos people will say "Doh! You should slow down what?!"

But it gives a estimation what. Doh!

[Refugee]

the reason why the countdown didnt take off is because...

 

instead of slowing down when seeing 4 secs left... the cars and bikes actually speed up to beat the 4 secs left....

[chivas]

when u feel that ur rear is skidding, release ur brake abit...

hope it helps...

[endlessloop]

Gents,

 

Appreciate your prompt advices. Yup. All indeed useful suggestions and learn quite a lot from here

 

...But there is 1 which is quite difficult to estimate, i.e. Traffic Light! In many cases I would slow down when approaching traffic lights. But my personal experience is a lot drivers behind would want to beat the traffic lights (esp taxi) and therefore tailgating me like hell.

 

 

3 arrow heads away (about 75-90m) from traffic light, get ready traffic light to turn red that would need you to stop. Regulate your approach speed to traffic light to 50~70 kmh. Anything higher, the cars following behind would have difficulty slowing down if you stop. Then maintain your speed constant as you approach the lights. When you keep your speed constant, the car behind you will also have to drop to that speed.

 

If light turns red, you brake hard and stop. If you had done all previous, be confident that the car behind you will also be able to brake hard and stop. Cars actually can outbrake bikes as they have greater contact patch as a car driver myself, no driver in singapore will want to hit a bike from behind, so you don't have to worry they can't stop in time.

 

Think of worse case scenario, if you slow down and stop behind crossing junction, and the car behind can't stop in time, the car will still have braked and dropped speed to about 10-20kmh and hit you on a slow bump. You will survive and the case will be in your favour.

However, if you worry too much, and speed up to dash across the junction, the equally impatient car drivers either perpendicular traffic flow or turning their right, that have been waiting to cross when the light turns green for them, will speed across thinking you would have stopped. You would have hit them at a speed of 50kmh and above. Isn't that much more momentum? Wouldn't that cause more injury if not fatality? And who is at fault?

I have seen the TP files and I have seen the cameras captured motorcyclist plus pillion flew when they tried to beat the redlight and a right turning car started to move into their path. Both rider and pillion died as they flew 20m into the air.

 

 

Some ideas that came from my mind:

...

 

2) Is it possible to develop a pre-configured braking system so that a 70/30 braking force distributed to the disc? Meaning to say, the hand level brake can control front and rear brake. Isn't it safer?

 

There is.

Honda introduced the Linked Brake System (LBS) on some of their motorcycles like VFR, BlackBird and my bike, STX1300.

 

From:

http://archives.motorcycle-usa.com/2002HondaST1300.html

ST1300 Review

 

"Linked brakes distribute braking power to both front and rear brakes regardless of which lever is activated. Using the front brake lever actuates two pistons in each 3-piston caliper (including the rear), while stepping on the brake pedal moves the center pistons of each caliper. A delay valve activates rear brake pressure slightly ahead of the front stoppers to minimize front-end dive.

 

In addition, LBS also allows less experienced riders fairly quick stopping without bothering with the handlebar brake lever. Together with ABS, a newbie just needs to stomp on the brake pedal, and the two systems bring the ST to a fairly quick, no-brainer stop without fear of "layin' her down."

 

Full braking power, however, can only be had by working both controls. Big rotors (310mm front, 316mm rear) offer commendable speed retardation for such a large bike, and the ABS doesn't interfere too early nor cause inappropriate feedback at the lever."

 

I really like the LBS on my STX1300. I just squeeze the front brake level only and I can feel like giant clamps clamping down on my bike and pulling it to a stop. I hardly ever even need to press both front and rear brakes for greater braking power. And my ABS never kicked in before.

 

Idiot-proof delivering great stopping poweress. Just like you just stomp on the foot brake of a Mistubishi Evolution and you let all the technology do the work of bringing the fast moving car to a stop without breaking a sweat.

[xcel]

Guys, thanks for your explanation, effort and time to comment

 

 

3 arrow heads away (about 75-90m) from traffic light, get ready traffic light to turn red that would need you to stop. Regulate your approach speed to traffic light to 50~70 kmh. Anything higher, the cars following behind would have difficulty slowing down if you stop. Then maintain your speed constant as you approach the lights. When you keep your speed constant, the car behind you will also have to drop to that speed.

 

If light turns red, you brake hard and stop. If you had done all previous, be confident that the car behind you will also be able to brake hard and stop. Cars actually can outbrake bikes as they have greater contact patch as a car driver myself, no driver in singapore will want to hit a bike from behind, so you don't have to worry they can't stop in time.

 

Think of worse case scenario, if you slow down and stop behind crossing junction, and the car behind can't stop in time, the car will still have braked and dropped speed to about 10-20kmh and hit you on a slow bump. You will survive and the case will be in your favour.

However, if you worry too much, and speed up to dash across the junction, the equally impatient car drivers either perpendicular traffic flow or turning their right, that have been waiting to cross when the light turns green for them, will speed across thinking you would have stopped. You would have hit them at a speed of 50kmh and above. Isn't that much more momentum? Wouldn't that cause more injury if not fatality? And who is at fault?

I have seen the TP files and I have seen the cameras captured motorcyclist plus pillion flew when they tried to beat the redlight and a right turning car started to move into their path. Both rider and pillion died as they flew 20m into the air.

 

 

Bro, agree with ur explanation. That's why I did a hard braking to avoid beating a red light. I know the consequences of doing so. However, the outcome of e-brake always tend to be very negative. Rule of thumb is to slow down when approaching traffic light. At least it's more maneuverable at low speed. Avoid e-brake at all times!

 

 

 

There is.

Honda introduced the Linked Brake System (LBS) on some of their motorcycles like VFR, BlackBird and my bike, STX1300.

 

From:

http://archives.motorcycle-usa.com/2002HondaST1300.html

ST1300 Review

 

"Linked brakes distribute braking power to both front and rear brakes regardless of which lever is activated. Using the front brake lever actuates two pistons in each 3-piston caliper (including the rear), while stepping on the brake pedal moves the center pistons of each caliper. A delay valve activates rear brake pressure slightly ahead of the front stoppers to minimize front-end dive.

 

In addition, LBS also allows less experienced riders fairly quick stopping without bothering with the handlebar brake lever. Together with ABS, a newbie just needs to stomp on the brake pedal, and the two systems bring the ST to a fairly quick, no-brainer stop without fear of "layin' her down."

 

Full braking power, however, can only be had by working both controls. Big rotors (310mm front, 316mm rear) offer commendable speed retardation for such a large bike, and the ABS doesn't interfere too early nor cause inappropriate feedback at the lever."

 

I really like the LBS on my STX1300. I just squeeze the front brake level only and I can feel like giant clamps clamping down on my bike and pulling it to a stop. I hardly ever even need to press both front and rear brakes for greater braking power. And my ABS never kicked in before.

 

Idiot-proof delivering great stopping poweress. Just like you just stomp on the foot brake of a Mistubishi Evolution and you let all the technology do the work of bringing the fast moving car to a stop without breaking a sweat.

 

Didn't really know there is such machine at the moment. With ABS somemore. Sure safer than bikes with conventional braking system. Too bad, the technology is not deployed to all range of bikes. Must be the price issue. But frankly speaking, I would think acceleration power and braking ability is equally improtant. I would not mind paying more for better braking system

[endlessloop]

The Art on the Science of Stopping Motorcycles Faster

 

Ever wish that there was an easier way to brake a motorcycle quickly?

 

Ever wonder how Combined Brake System (CBS) or Linked Brake System (LBS) works?

 

Ever why some bike manufacturers like Honda put in CBS or LBS?

 

Ever wonder how ABS works with this CBS or LBS?

 

The Art on the Science of Stopping Motorcycles Faster

 

Ever wish that there was an easier way to brake a motorcycle quickly?

 

Ever wonder how Combined Brake System (CBS) or Linked Brake System (LBS) works?

 

Ever why some bike manufacturers like Honda put in CBS or LBS?

 

Ever wonder how ABS works with this CBS or LBS?

 

Well, my biking kaki Floppy, found this wonderful website:

 

http://www.world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/brake/p1.html

 

It talks about the various braking technologies used by Honda.

It is a bit technical and cheem.

 

Alternatively, I have summarised and simplified the article in my blog:

 

http://bp1.blogger.com/_iKgbOoKOj7w/R_1uKY695ZI/AAAAAAAAA_s/vj2LjH9_ryg/s400/PtCarvsBikeBraking.JPG

 

Ever brake so hard and you go "Woooh!!!" and feel like you and the bike are going to flip foward?

 

This picture basically says that braking for motorcycles is different from that of cars. Motorcycles experience greater degrees of nosedive than cars because of higher center of gravity and shorter wheelbase.

 

 

http://bp0.blogger.com/_iKgbOoKOj7w/R_1uLI695cI/AAAAAAAABAE/_rMfIDgNip0/s400/PtDualCBS.JPG

 

This picture shows how Honda's dual CBS works. In short, press your foot brake, the rear brake works harder, but the front brake still works. Press your front brake lever, the front brake wors harder, but the rear brake still works. Press both front lever and foot brake, you get all the front and rear brakes work to their max.

 

 

http://bp0.blogger.com/_iKgbOoKOj7w/R_1uLI695bI/AAAAAAAAA_8/bSon95ZOzQc/s400/PtCombinedABS.JPG

 

Not satisfied with just putting dual CBS into their VFR, ST1300 and Blackbird, Honda added in ABS. This diagram shows how ABS sits in-between your brake controls and the brake pistons so that the ABS can jump in and smooth things out.

 

If you find it interesting, more on:

 

http://loudexhaust.blogspot.com/2008/04/art-on-science-of-stopping-motorcycles.html

[Dafanshu]

Good thread! Well I guess slow down, drop gear and use engine brake is the best. Anticipate danger!

[xcel]

Bro endlessloop,

 

Thanks for sharing. It's a pleasure reading nite. I really don't know Honda put so many effort on the braking system. Good effort!

[ulysses_sc]

Most bikes do not come with ABS or CBS or whatever braking aids. When braking on such bikes, I normally employ only the front binders, just like on track.

 

During hard braking, most weight is transferred to the front, and the rear becomes very light. All it takes is for a light tapping on the rear brake pedal to cause a lock up.

 

Face it. During emergency braking, how many people can actually "remember" to do intermittent braking? Tap release tap release? C'mon... 99% of riders will simply stomp on the rear brake pedal...

 

And whoever says use 70% front, 30% rear or whatever ratio, how do you actually put that into practice?

 

You can ride in such a way to avoid doing unnecessary emergency brakings. When approaching traffic junctions, slow down. Ride slower in wet weather, and use more engine braking. Be constantly aware of your surroundings.

 

Of course there will be occassions where an idiot chooses to cut into your lane, but by being aware of your surroundings helps to reduce such encounters.

 

If all else fails, get a bike with ABS.

[ractive89]

use engine brake..den applie both brake but only tapping on rear..

 

anyway wan to ask wat are those bikes wif abs in sg??

[endlessloop]

Some people think that using the engine braking is a good way to slow the bike down and will not lock up the rear wheel.

 

Just beware that applying engine braking to slow down the rear wheel really has the same effect as using the rear foot brake to slown down the rear wheel. Go figure.

 

So, it is possible to cause the rear wheel to lock by dropping gears. Some bikes are more prone to this than some others.

 

For normal slowing down community riding, using engine braking is fine.

But for sudden hard emergency braking, it's better to use front brakes and if necessary, rear foot brake. Only when the bike has slowed down somewhat, then it is safe to drop gear to utlise engine braking.

[econbizer]

Yes like everyone is preaching, go slower on rainy days.

 

Use engine brake more. Drop gear release clutch in quick succession, while braking. Use more front that rear brake.

 

This pracetice can be cultivated everyday. As u approach stops, always release throttle, brake > on front than back.. it'll gradually become a good habit.