Adding little 2T oil into fuel tank for 4-stroke bike and feel the smoothness

[crazydj]

we seldom hear 2T biker complains engine clogged up by carbon

 

 

The design of a 2 stroker is totally different from a 4 stroker.

 

Sorry ah guys, I am with ezzyoiler on this one. Although I don't see that you need to straight away overhaul your engine, but the way I see it is that

 

1) You will end up with a bike with more decreased performance in the long run

 

2) You might need to overhaul your engine earlier that it is supposed to be, depending on how much impurities are in the system.

 

But one thing for sure is that your carb and fuel filter is gonna get so dirty, you are gonna get pissed. Haha.

Edited May 11, 2011 by crazydj

[BLACK COMET]

The recommended ratio is no more than 1:500, i.e. 2ml 2T per L petrol

30:1 or 40:1 ratio are meant for 2T bikes, not for 4T bike.

If you put too much, either u may find it slightly harder to start the bike at next morning, or the engine get hotter when cruising.

Though so far, I have no problem to start the bike in the morning in one crank only.

 

My wife asked why the exhaust pipe getting hotter recently.

It is because 2T oil results in better combustion and higher temp I guess.

I can't live without 2T oil nowadays, getting used to the smoothness, responsiveness and quieter engine.

 

Exhaust pipe running hotter? Not sure if it's a good thing. Could be exhaust valve not closing properly due to carbon built up

 

http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-648603.html

 

Valve discipate heats via valve seat.

 

The above link seems to have similar discussionm going on

[BLACK COMET]

For Myself.

 

I was thinking along that line too.

 

Until on old ex forumer explains to me scientifically why not to do it.

 

Althou I am very tempted to try as I am very sensitive to engine sounds. But hold back until now.

 

This is a intersting subject. But my personal opinion. ThinK I will take CrazyDJ and easy oiler side of theory.

[hachi]

There are a number of car owner took the route and come back with positive result. I tried it myself for the first tank not bad...

I mean if those who pay tax more than 3x of their vehicle OMV dare to try, then why not.....

There are also lots of snake oil that are self proclaim of tons of benefits....Why not 2T, as long as the ratio are kept to the minimum...

Those with supersport and superbikes should not try as their fuel injectors have much smaller holes to ensure fuel atomization. These are highly tuned engines....

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

There are a number of car owner took the route and come back with positive result. I tried it myself for the first tank not bad...

I mean if those who pay tax more than 3x of their vehicle OMV dare to try, then why not.....

There are also lots of snake oil that are self proclaim of tons of benefits....Why not 2T, as long as the ratio are kept to the minimum...

 

 

Tested.

 

Results were very promising. On cold start, no more valve tapping could be heard. As the engine warmed up it became much more eager and more immediate/punchy in mid range torque delivery. Once on the highway I did a deliberate over-rev of 5th gear all the way up to 95kph.

 

Wow, no vibrations at all. The slow traffic kept to the left so I was able to go all the way up to 120kph, maintaining a very high cruising speed all the way to work. The engine did not overheat or lose power due to overheating unlike normal bikes of the same make and model, and there was none of the usual 4-stroke vibration when pushed hard. It's just like running V-Power and feeling a bit of its "friction reduction" advertisement, just much, much better.

 

At low speed, there is smoother and more eager power delivery and I am able to launch the bike at first gear at 2000RPM without the engine skipping a beat. Usually, you'll get that clack-clack-clack sound if you try and release the clutch without adding power. More fun crawling about on 1st and 2nd gear now.

 

2T ratio used was 500:1 on a 4 stroke 200cc, carburetted with about 9:1 compression ratio with estimated cruise rpm of 6000-9000 on the highway (do not try on stock bike!!). Bike is your typical rust bucket from the early 2000s kept with minimal maintenance.

 

All in all I am not concerned about reliability as I have done much worse things to this bike such as lean burning (46km/l FC), off roading, carrying heavy loads on dispatch and house moving, running-in beyond 10,000RPM etc, and this Honda engine seems to take it fine with no servicing, etc done. Just frequent oil changes.

 

On the heat generation part, I had already made sure this bike runs happily on fully synthetic EO and done some stuff, tuning wise, to increase the rate of heat dissipation.

[byte77]

Good test. Which 2T brand do you use?

My bike's high pitch aircraft charging sound has disappeared too at high RPM cruising.

Once you try it, can't go without.

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Good test. Which 2T brand do you use?

My bike's high pitch aircraft charging sound has disappeared too at high RPM cruising.

Once you try it, can't go without.

 

I bought the yellow Shell 2T, the cheap one at $4.60. Actually I had no intention of testing the subject topic but since some people insist on shooting people down for no reason (destroying creativity/innovation is acting in bad faith), I couldn't resist learning more about the topic just so I can personally prove that while certain engine tuning ideas sound really bad, they don't cause apocalyptic engine failure but rather have a very sound engineering principle.

 

Paying upwards of $200 for some stupid "fuel charger" doesn't work scientifically and morally. $40 for fish tank parts connected together?Nah. They say a fool is easily parted with his money.

Identifying the inefficient valvetrain of an old engine as a limitation to its top end capability? Elementary $4.60 kopitiam science, that in concert with smart tuning, can possibly be very beneficial and cost-saving in the long run.

 

I also did complimentary stress testing on the engine as I put myself as the sweeper in the friday night convoy. Usually, the bigger groups on SBF will only consider 400cc bikes and above for the task, as it involves a lot of hard acceleration and high speed sprints while managing the convoy's direction and keeping everyone together. However, I have enough confidence in my own tuning work to use my bike in the role. More challenging!

 

From 8pm to 3am I was thus involved in tremendously stressing the engine, redlining it as I saw fit. If there was any degradation in performance I would have felt it. Once again, the engine's performance was somewhat noticeably improved and I have no worry of incomplete combustion and fouling. 20ml of oil in a 10+ litre load of petrol is nothing compared to condensation, rust, etc - and in fact the anti-rust properties of oil might be beneficial to a lot of people as a lot of new riders enjoy owning older generation bikes more. (They say they like the more classic look, etc)

 

Increased expected vehicle lifespan means it's a good thing to be interested in efficiency-increasing ideas, throwing out those that cost more than $10 lol. The mythbusting aspect of what I call 'kopitiam engineering' is however, the most fun of it. It's like those science projects mad scientists do at home, minus exploding test tubes and white hair

[ezzyoiler]

good luck to all who is going to try this..

you need it..

more than a centuary of bike engineering work...will be re written...if you succeed..

 

any way...planet motors is going to welcome you with open arms..whatever the results...

[byte77]

good luck to all who is going to try this..

you need it..

more than a centuary of bike engineering work...will be re written...if you succeed..

 

any way...planet motors is going to welcome you with open arms..whatever the results...

 

2T oil is evil for 4 stroke engines?

Are you turning a blind eye to many good benefits of 2T oil?

 

As advertised by various oil companies, good 2T oils have the following benefits:

 

1. Castrol Activ 2T

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9009752&conten%20%20tId=7018615

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_malaysia/STAGING/local_assets/images/products/mco_activ2t_malaysia_375x25.jpg

Castrol Activ 2T is a modern, high quality 2-stroke engine oil fortified with Deposit Protection Formula designed to provide continuous protection against the build up of carbon deposits on the engine and spark plug, keeping them clean to ensure fast and reliable starting.

Benefits

Cleanliness of engine and spark plug to ensure fast and reliable starting

Good protection against exhaust system blocking

Good lubricity to protect pistons from scuffing

Reduced pre-ignition and catalyst deterioration

Continuous protection against the build up of carbon deposits on the engine and spark plug during use.

 

2. Castrol Power1 2T

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=82914632&contentId=6006021

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_malaysia/STAGING/local_assets/images/products/mco_power12t_malaysia_375x253.jpg

Castrol Power1 2T is an advanced, clean burning 2-stroke engine oil, its Power Release Formula allows your engine to perform at its best, maximizing your engine’s power without compromising protection.

Benefits:

Maximum power operation

Maximum engine power without compromising on protection

Excellent resistance to exhaust system blocking which may lead to power loss over time

Exceptional engine cleanliness

Low levels of visible smoke

 

3. Mobil Extra 2T

http://www.mobil.com/Italy-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_Extra_2T.aspx

http://www.nielsencdg.co.uk/acatalog/328x367-Mobil-Extra-2T-1L.jpg

Mobil Motorcycle Oil Product Features.

* Mobil Extra 2T is a superior performance; semi-synthetic, smokeless, two-stroke engine oil developed to meet for high performance motorcycles, snowmobiles and chain saws.

* Mobil Extra 2T is pre-diluted to facilitate mixing when added to fuel.

 

Features and Benefits

* Mobil Extra 2T combines a blend of high quality mineral and synthesised high performance baseoils with an advanced additive system to provide excellent engine cleanliness and no-smoke exhaust performance.

 

Advantages and Potential Benefits

* Excellent wear protection

* Longer engine life

* Good thermal and oxidation stability and deposit control

* Cleaner engines resulting in extended spark plug and valve life, reduced ring sticking, piston tightening and prevention of pre-ignition problems

* Excellent corrosion protection properties

* Smoke-free exhaust

* Cleaner environment

 

4. PENNZOIL MARINE PREMIUM PLUS OUTBOARD TWO-CYCLE OIL

http://imageserv8.team-logic.com/store-logic/products/3/11994/st_5305001_1.jpg

http://www.pennzoil.com/#/engine-oil/pennzoil-marine-premium-plus-2-cycle-oil

BENEFITS:

 

Helps keep spark plug clean.

Helps protect against piston scuffing.

Helps keep exhaust ports clean.

Helps protect against ring sticking.

Performs in extreme conditions and causes less smoke.

Provides ashless oil protection.

Edited May 15, 2011 by byte77

[lauhs8]

2T oil is evil for 4 stroke engines?

Are you turning a blind eye to many good benefits of 2T oil?

 

As advertised by various oil companies, good 2T oils have the following benefits:

 

1. Castrol Activ 2T

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_malaysia/STAGING/local_assets/images/products/mco_activ2t_malaysia_375x25.jpg

Castrol Activ 2T is a modern, high quality 2-stroke engine oil fortified with Deposit Protection Formula designed to provide continuous protection against the build up of carbon deposits on the engine and spark plug, keeping them clean to ensure fast and reliable starting.

Benefits

Cleanliness of engine and spark plug to ensure fast and reliable starting

Good protection against exhaust system blocking

Good lubricity to protect pistons from scuffing

Reduced pre-ignition and catalyst deterioration

Continuous protection against the build up of carbon deposits on the engine and spark plug during use.

 

2. Castrol Power1 2T

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_malaysia/STAGING/local_assets/images/products/mco_power12t_malaysia_375x253.jpg

Castrol Power1 2T is an advanced, clean burning 2-stroke engine oil, its Power Release Formula allows your engine to perform at its best, maximizing your engine’s power without compromising protection.

Benefits:

Maximum power operation

Maximum engine power without compromising on protection

Excellent resistance to exhaust system blocking which may lead to power loss over time

Exceptional engine cleanliness

Low levels of visible smoke

 

3. Mobil Extra 2T

 

http://www.nielsencdg.co.uk/acatalog/328x367-Mobil-Extra-2T-1L.jpg

Mobil Motorcycle Oil Product Features.

* Mobil Extra 2T is a superior performance; semi-synthetic, smokeless, two-stroke engine oil developed to meet for high performance motorcycles, snowmobiles and chain saws.

* Mobil Extra 2T is pre-diluted to facilitate mixing when added to fuel.

 

Features and Benefits

* Mobil Extra 2T combines a blend of high quality mineral and synthesised high performance baseoils with an advanced additive system to provide excellent engine cleanliness and no-smoke exhaust performance.

 

Advantages and Potential Benefits

* Excellent wear protection

* Longer engine life

* Good thermal and oxidation stability and deposit control

* Cleaner engines resulting in extended spark plug and valve life, reduced ring sticking, piston tightening and prevention of pre-ignition problems

* Excellent corrosion protection properties

* Smoke-free exhaust

* Cleaner environment

 

4. PENNZOIL MARINE PREMIUM PLUS OUTBOARD TWO-CYCLE OIL

http://imageserv8.team-logic.com/store-logic/products/3/11994/st_5305001_1.jpg

 

BENEFITS:

 

Helps keep spark plug clean.

Helps protect against piston scuffing.

Helps keep exhaust ports clean.

Helps protect against ring sticking.

Performs in extreme conditions and causes less smoke.

Provides ashless oil protection.

 

Hi,

may i know all these oil advertisement is it meant for 2 stroke or 4 stroke bike ?

 

Regards

[byte77]

Hi,

may i know all these oil advertisement is it meant for 2 stroke or 4 stroke bike ?

 

Regards

 

Before answering you, let me ask you a question.

All the engine oils used by 2T bikes are the same as that of 4T bikes right?

Then those engine oils are named as '4T engine oil' right?

Wouldn't it be wrong to use '4T' engine oil in '2T' bikes? Think about it.

For e.g.

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=82914640&contentId=6005484

"Castrol Activ 4T with Activ Protection Molecules (APM) is a modern, high quality engine oil, is specifically developed for a '4 stroke' motorcycle engines."

 

 

 

 

Original links of 2T oil info:

 

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9009752&contentId=7018615

 

http://www.castrol.com/castrol/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=82914632&contentId=6006021

 

http://www.mobil.com/Italy-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_Extra_2T.aspx

 

http://www.pennzoil.com/#/engine-oil/pennzoil-marine-premium-plus-2-cycle-oil

Edited May 15, 2011 by byte77

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

Both two and four strokes are petrol engines. They both use pistons. In a four stroke motorcycle the engine oil does triple duty lubricating the clutch, cylinder/block/etc and also acts as a heatsink in aircooled models.

 

On older bikes, a small bit of 2t is put into the engine as supplementary lubrication, as with my experimentation. 200cc engine aircooled + super high revs and tropical heat = heavily stressed motor oil and very high cylinder temperatures. 2T to me is like the oil injection system of Mazda sports cars that kick in at high power settings dumping motor oil into the cylinder.

 

Some Mazda enthusiasts (who go out on the track, etc) also use 2T premix as it protects the combustion chambers better than injecting car oil into the chamber.

 

For those who partake in such practises they feel improved engine smoothness and performance.

 

Regardless of the protests, this does not make the engine blow up. Certain types of commercially available fuels do have lubricating properties already, at a vastly increased price. They don't tell you this, but welcome to the 21st Century. Stuff gets tried, stuff gets done, and deployed into the market under the guise of F1 technology. Likewise, 2-cycle oil is heavily engineered to prevent the things most feared in 2-stroke engines - carbon buildup, etc etc. They are a thing of the past. Plenty of RX-Ks and Rs, 2B sportsbikes and 125Zs out there that can both run fast and last surprisingly long.

 

Whereas let's see how kopitiam engineering V-power works out in terms of cost

 

$4.60 for 500ml (enough for 25 10 litre fillups)

4.60 / 25 = about 18.5 cents per ten litres.

 

You pay 20+ cents per litre extra for V-Power. You pay 20 cents more per ten litres for the 2T lol.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Pandora's Kitten :3

[byte77]

 

You are really the pro!

[SparkerS1]

Before answering you, let me ask you a question.

All the engine oils used by 2T bikes are the same as that of 4T bikes right?

Then those engine oils are named as '4T engine oil' right?

Wouldn't it be wrong to use '4T' engine oil in '2T' bikes? Think about it.

 

Just for correction, 2 stroke bikes should use gear oil, not 4T EO, it's just tat the demand for gear oil has fallen due to the huge influx of 4 stroke bikes recent yrs thus bike shops use 4T EO for bikes instead of gear oil as 4T EO can be used for 2 stroke and 4 stroke bikes.

 

I myself owned and rode different 2 strokers before, 2T oil is not a stranger to me.

I also owned and still ridding 4 strokers now, been using 2T mixed into my tank for several 4 strokers, of cos the ratio of the 2T:petrol has been measured.

 

The result I have is tat the spark plugs' condition are still the same, engine combustion sound slightly reduced, smoother pickup and much more stable in high speed riding.

The 2T oil i used is MOTUL 810 from MW.

 

Nowadays I use 2T oil once a blue moon and STP gas treatment/octane booster monthly for my bikes.

2T oil has costed a few times more than STP products, I rather spend the money on STP fuel addictives for my 4 strokers.

 

I recommend using STP fuel addictives for smoother pickup and better response

[byte77]

2T oil has costed a few times more than STP products, I rather spend the money on STP fuel addictives for my 4 strokers.

 

Wonder how much you paid for the 2T oil?

[SparkerS1]

the price of 2T oil has increased at least 20% compared wif 4yrs back dude, I used of cos the best in the range.

 

2T Gold, Castrol A747, Putoline RS959, MOTUL 810 Rd race..........

*** If premix wif Castrol A747, pls complete the tank of fuel within the days as stated on the 2T bottle

 

But if u go to esso petrol stn, u check it out the STP gas treatment offer, its alot cheaper compared wif 2T.

 

If u wanna try use 2T for 4 strokers, pls use the best, if not dun even try.

 

I have observed this thread since it started, now tat i have contributed my experience, I also expect ppl to flame me.

But pls, no right no wrong, just the sharing of info, no hard feelings alright

[spaiduhz]

the price of 2T oil has increased at least 20% compared wif 4yrs back dude, I used of cos the best in the range.

 

2T Gold, Castrol A747, Putoline RS959, MOTUL 810 Rd race..........

*** If premix wif Castrol A747, pls complete the tank of fuel within the days as stated on the 2T bottle

 

But if u go to esso petrol stn, u check it out the STP gas treatment offer, its alot cheaper compared wif 2T.

 

If u wanna try use 2T for 4 strokers, pls use the best, if not dun even try.

 

I have observed this thread since it started, now tat i have contributed my experience, I also expect ppl to flame me.

But pls, no right no wrong, just the sharing of info, no hard feelings alright

 

I won't recommend redrev fuel system cleaner, though.

[SparkerS1]

I nv use tat before, i like STP the way it is

 

one bottle of STP gas treatment can last me 3 tanks

[CSV]

ok, now i'm interested to try.

 

so basic points is, to make sure you get the ratio correct. 1:500ml of petrol

 

and make sure you use good 2t? is that all?

[SparkerS1]

the ratio u judge uself, always use fully synthetic 2T.

 

IMO not suitable for bikes which always travel short distance and slow moving.

 

STP fuel addictives like gas treatment or octance booster is worth a try too

[CSV]

hmm, i commute 20km to work everyday, speed is like 90-100km. so it should be enough.

 

the thing worrying me is my engine is very hot after a ride. unusually hot, so i am very paranoid if its overheating or not.

 

tuning the carb abit help, but still wanna keep the engine as cool as possible. so hopefully this might help.

[SparkerS1]

Using 2T does not solve ur bike overheating situation.

 

Better re-jet and tune ur carburetor first.

 

Maybe u are too sensitive about the heat from the bike, can check it out wif other phantom riders if they face such situation wif their bikes

[byte77]

Getting hotter on the seat is the characteristics of choppers, esp for air-cooled phantom, get used to it.

[Jehuty]

You may run the risk of overheating the cylinders. Try not to deviate too much from manufacturer reccomended plug ratings.

 

I thought plug rating still the same, just use a different medium other than iridium or platinum but since you mentioned overheating since they produce stronger sparks...

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

The addition of 2T into the air/fuel ratio will theoretically cause a "leaner" mixture and is confirmed during road testing. On a carburetted engine this will give a "smoother" engine feel (more on this later) but also cause it to run hotter. So for a Phantom, increase richness by 1/4 to 3/4 turn of the air correction screw as necessary.

 

FYI the Phantom even if running at ultra-lean 46km/l settings will not make the seat hot. All the heat is concentrated at the lower part of the engine. The aluminum covers act like a heatsink and fully synthetic EO (such as Chex 9000, Motul 300V) disperses the heat faster and much better than mineral EO. The underseat plastic covers divert hot air away from the seat and rider when the bike is moving, so the seat never gets hot.

 

Once again, run richer to compensate for the "lean running" condition and give better low end torque + cooling. (Again, modify the above kopitiam engineering theory as necessary to suit your bike and purpose)

 

Some motoring enthusiasts in forums that discuss this issue more extensively also report that adding 2T to petrol slightly slows down the rate of combustion as fuel droplets are dispersed in uniform size when injected/carburetted. This ensures more complete combustion and reduces the chance of predetonation (for bikes like the Phantom which are cylinder head temperature- & knock-limited at high speeds, the effect of superior high end throttle response and high power stability is noticeable). Engine does not stumble when pushed to the MAX even during endurance tests.

 

For type of 2T, some of the aforementioned motorheads advocate the use of high end 2T... or the cheapest mineral 2T. Apparently the JASO rating is important and mineral 2T of a certain JASO rating does burn without leaving a residue. However the links to website mentioning this are on my home PC. They do not recommend using synthetic 2T but recommend using certain brands of marine engine rated 2T instead.

 

For our perspective, this "use the best 2T? or the worst?" is up for discussion and testing and I'll stick to the cheapest 2T to see if their theory on mineral 2T is correct - bike is expendable and purchased for DIY experiments

Edited May 16, 2011 by Pandora's Kitten :3