Adding little 2T oil into fuel tank for 4-stroke bike and feel the smoothness

[Jayel]

Ya, adding 2t is an old school thingy. I am an old uncle and I use to ride for a while in the 70's and 80's. Got myself a c70 cub about a year ago, just for fun. Old habits are hard to die and I had been adding 2t, about 4 or 5 ml to every 3l petrol. Nothing negative so far. If anything, other c70 riders thought mine is more powerful than theirs. Better pickup compared to other stock c70's despite me using slightly larger tyres than them. (I am using stock sprocket sizes too). Better top speed also. This 13year old bike has never been overhauled before and from what I can see and feel, won't need to for some time to come. My mechanic think so too. Old, small cc 4 stroke bikes like mine that are always pushed to their limits, I believe will benefit from adding a little 2t.

[byte77]

Personal preference I will not add 2T to my current bike, as its FI, its already very fuel efficient in its class and the the engine feels smooth to me.

 

Cars with fuel injection are also reported to obtain the enhanced smoothness by adding 2T.

To me it is actually the quieter engine sound and responsiveness that tempt me to add 2T, not really for the fuel economy.

[bukitmerah]

ah boy's 2T sales goes up gradually nowadays. haha..

 

ya, their price recently also increased maybe due to the increased demand from 4-strokers.

 

There has been a lot of "debate" about this that has been going for a long time but as usual i am going to "offend" ( i apologize here beforehand just in case ) a lot of people for saying this:-

 

i can maybe try to understand why anybody might want to do it for a BIG 4-stroke bike or really very OLD "vintage" bike.

 

However, i can't really understand why anyone will want to do it on small 2b bikes. Why? my "twisted logic" is like this:-

 

One of the BIG ADVANTAGE of 4-stroke bikes is that they do NOT need to use 2t. Simple? If i want to spend $$$ to buy 2t & the TIME & HASSLE of adding 2t on a 2b 4-stroke bike, i might as well just simply go chose a 2-stroke bike instead? Makes Life simpler.

 

I am expecting a lot of "flaming" & "twisted logic" blasting...who cares?...hahaha...

 

PS: paiseh paiseh...of course if you got TOO MUCH $$$, TIME & ENERGY & ENJOY...then of course ANYTHING is ok...go ahead & ENJOY lor

Edited September 2, 2011 by bukitmerah

[byte77]

2T is additive for 4 stroke bike but necessity for 2 stroke.

The recommended ratio of 2t : petrol for 4 stroke is 1:500 which is much lesser than 1:40 for 2 stroke.

[bukitmerah]

2T is additive for 4 stroke bike but necessity for 2 stroke.

The recommended ratio of 2t : petrol for 4 stroke is 1:500 which is much lesser than 1:40 for 2 stroke.

 

ok, i stand corrected but it is still $$$ ( not really needed additional expense on a 2b 4-stroke bike ) & what about the time & hassle ( more hassle of adding 2t than on a regular 2-stroke bike like rxz vs fz-16 / cbf150 or 125z vs wave / spark ) ? Besides 4-stroke bikes already need to go for more frequent oil changes & regular 4-stroke valves servicing. i won't want to spend more than i really need on a wave / fz-16 etc...

 

ok if you have a really old vintage classic bike that you know ALREADY need a lot of care & attention or a super-fast class 2 that $ is already not an issue & besides your class 2 can out-run any SP, then maybe there is a point to all that...but putting 2t on a wave is not going to turn it into a S4 / SP / R1, you know what i mean? Since i got a 2b 4-stroke bike, i want to enjoy it's "budget" economy, after all that is probably why i chose it over a SP / CBR...you get what i am trying to say?

Edited September 2, 2011 by bukitmerah

[byte77]

1L of 2T can treat 500L of petrol for 4 stroke.

So 1 bottle of 2T can last many months.

If he tops up 500L petrol every month, he must be riding vigorously, and adding 2T is further recommended for engine under stress.

Edited September 3, 2011 by byte77

[yc86]

I have been adding 0.8ml/l of 2t to my 5 year old Ybr 125. The results gained is really hard to believe. at 80km/h rpm is reduced from 8500 to 8200. about 300 rpm. Engine is much quieter and smoother.

 

When I bought my bike, it already had engine problems. The mechanic said my engine bearings are worn out. And you can hear the chik chik chik sound when engine is running. So i looked around to see if I can improve my ride.

 

Usually, engine roars and struggles anything above 80km/h. But when i run it with 2t, it does 85km/h with much less complain. I feel confident to open more throttle without damaging the engine.

 

I alternated between tanks of 2t and no 2t in the beginning, out of fear that 2t will clog my fuel lines. I always pump Caltex 98 to clean the engine too. However, performance of the engine drops back to normal whenever i revert back to using 100% petrol. Engine sounds rough and struggles near 80km/h. Roars and feel like blowing up when doing 85-90.

 

Nowadays, I always add 2t whenever I fill up. Its not expensive at all as 1 whole bottle of 2t will last you months. I feel the added smoothness = protecting your engine from wear and tear. I recommend giving it a try. No harm one. Its your bike right? You can feel it for yourself as we are very sensitive to our machines.

 

I do not understand how it is possible to maintain the same speed but at different rpms for the same bike (same sprockets n gearbox), unless there is a torque converter or some sort of non-direct coupling in there. can someone explain to me?

[IvikaRazI]

I do not understand how it is possible to maintain the same speed but at different rpms for the same bike (same sprockets n gearbox), unless there is a torque converter or some sort of non-direct coupling in there. can someone explain to me?

 

Have to agree with dat.....anyway nowadays many bikes takes its speed from the engine. This does not provide accurate readings. By changing the characteristics of the bike, example change of sprockets, adding additives, changing spark plugs, etc, will affect the reading. A more fairer way to do this is via a GPS unit. I know that this is not 100% accurate either, well at least it is 90%++. There will be speedo errors, which is more on a 2B bike.

 

From my POV, I would not recommend this method on an EFI bike. If it chokes the injectors, there goes your pocket. Engine oils will already be sufficient for the lubrications. Ester based EO is the highest grade to provide the best protection. Adding any additional may cause harm or none. You might not know what kind of chemical reactions it will do in the engine (EO with special formula + 2T + Petrol = maybe monster??). Maybe it works for Carb engines since most of these vehicles have passed the 5 year mark, where the pistons and cylinders have worn. With the additional 'lubrication', it helps to close up the holes for better combustion. Since in this subject, it is very important to use the correct viscosity of EO for the bike. EO too thin will cause the engine to 'eat' up the EO (you will always need to top up your EO). Too thick might cause more wear and tear in the future.

 

 

Anyway to share further, found this in HWZ forum (http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2444255)

 

"Back to topic - 0.08% or 0.1% is prefer maximum. Too much may result hazardous to your chamber and piston. Another thinking also that, with such low amount of 2T added, there are no significant changes noticable for engine in car (big cc). For smaller cc eg. 125cc or 250cc, the effect also not that significant.

 

IMHO - I wouldn't advised ppl trying 2T in petrol for car. Due to the cost of repair and complexity of engine make. Still not worthwhile to try, bikes tend to cheaper to overhaul and most simplest engine make are 2stroke 2B/2A version.

 

B4 the 4 stroke era, I rode Skipper, RK, RXZ, SP and then PGM. It feels that 2T lubricate the chamber and piston more. Significant negative effect was felt during my 4 stroke bike era. I owned before, super4, RVF, CBR, Joyride scooter, R6, SRAD then GSX1000. 1st i used 2T again on my super4 since its my 1st 4 stroke. No effect of 2T felt and so increase slightly more - end up, spark plugs dampen, retard low RPM and sluggish acceleration. Thats was when I stop using 2T in petrol."

[CSV]

yeah, another thing i experience with 2t is that the engine complains less at high speed.

 

normally without 2t, once i hit 110km/h on 6th, engine very noisy and screaming.

 

with 2t, its quieter by abit, so i dare to push it more. to 130kmh.

 

 

agan, i am not a techical guy, so i don't know the exact idea of why i get increased fuel efficiency (leaner mixture?) and less engine noise at high speed, but it works. simple as that. for me at least.

 

EFI bikes probably do not need as it is already a very efficient system.

[Limhg]

I swear its not exaggeration. The Rpms really do drop by about 300. I guess its the engine not working as hard as it used to keep up at that speed.

 

One example is when you throttle hard to reach 100. The RPM goes higher than you are simply cruising at 100. Its because the engine is working hard to get there right? But once you hit 100 and ease the throttle. Its cruising at the same speed but lower rpm.

 

But why engine rpm is not in direct parallel relation to the rate bike is moving i do not know too.

[Limhg]

ok, i stand corrected but it is still $$$ ( not really needed additional expense on a 2b 4-stroke bike ) & what about the time & hassle ( more hassle of adding 2t than on a regular 2-stroke bike like rxz vs fz-16 / cbf150 or 125z vs wave / spark ) ? Besides 4-stroke bikes already need to go for more frequent oil changes & regular 4-stroke valves servicing. i won't want to spend more than i really need on a wave / fz-16 etc...

 

ok if you have a really old vintage classic bike that you know ALREADY need a lot of care & attention or a super-fast class 2 that $ is already not an issue & besides your class 2 can out-run any SP, then maybe there is a point to all that...but putting 2t on a wave is not going to turn it into a S4 / SP / R1, you know what i mean? Since i got a 2b 4-stroke bike, i want to enjoy it's "budget" economy, after all that is probably why i chose it over a SP / CBR...you get what i am trying to say?

 

2 words. Rider satisfaction.

 

Its not about speed and power. Add 2t and feel happier when riding. Engine smoother, run higher speeds not so hard pain when engine is not tearing itself apart so much. Decreased wear and tear = longer engine lifespan. Think about it, 1 bottle of good 2t cost $20.

 

$20 divided by few months = few dollars a month only.

 

If riding 2b 4 stroke is ONLY for budget. People should not buy spark135, x1R, R15, phantom, Gilera Runner etc.. Just get a Honda cub C90. So cheap and so durable.

 

Rider satisfaction and passion for the machine you ride:)

[rxgn]

so is the recommended ratio is no more than 1:500, i.e. 2ml 2T per L petrol

 

20ml to 10L petrol?

[ezzyoiler]

why EFI...dont need it??

i am puzzled...?

 

2t for lube ...i agree and understand its function...

EFI ... should be better..isnt it...with the fine spary of fuel and 2t in even tinier misting..??

 

now if you tell me 2t increases fuel efficiency because it burns and contribute to this effficiency..its just cannot

hold water...just look at some 2 strokers..their exhaust seems to be suffering from a "running nose "..if those who claims it burns.this drippings of 2t tell me otherwise.

 

the main reason of EFI..MACHINES DONT NEED.. is that ..simply most would not want to take the challenge..?

why...that you have to ask those who says it is not necessary....to me it is too expensive a challenge..big $$$ involved here so not necessary..

 

any way ..i did not dispute that 2t have better lubrication at the cylinder head area thus it is true that a quieter ride with less vibration is possible..

but the consequences that will come in the future...as i mentioned before motor bikes have over a hundred years of history...the oil and manufacturer as well..this simple idea doesnt make economic sense..

 

so good luck to all who want to try...smooth ride now........and $$$$$$$$$$$$$ in repairs in the future

Edited September 3, 2011 by ezzyoiler

[byte77]

so is the recommended ratio is no more than 1:500, i.e. 2ml 2T per L petrol

 

20ml to 10L petrol?

 

That's right.

Always obey the ratio according to the amount of petrol top up.

[ezzyoiler]

Have to agree with dat.....anyway nowadays many bikes takes its speed from the engine. This does not provide accurate readings. By changing the characteristics of the bike, example change of sprockets, adding additives, changing spark plugs, etc, will affect the reading. A more fairer way to do this is via a GPS unit. I know that this is not 100% accurate either, well at least it is 90%++. There will be speedo errors, which is more on a 2B bike.

 

From my POV, I would not recommend this method on an EFI bike. If it chokes the injectors, there goes your pocket. Engine oils will already be sufficient for the lubrications. Ester based EO is the highest grade to provide the best protection. Adding any additional may cause harm or none. You might not know what kind of chemical reactions it will do in the engine (EO with special formula + 2T + Petrol = maybe monster??). Maybe it works for Carb engines since most of these vehicles have passed the 5 year mark, where the pistons and cylinders have worn. With the additional 'lubrication', it helps to close up the holes for better combustion. Since in this subject, it is very important to use the correct viscosity of EO for the bike. EO too thin will cause the engine to 'eat' up the EO (you will always need to top up your EO). Too thick might cause more wear and tear in the future.

 

 

Anyway to share further, found this in HWZ forum (http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2444255)

 

"Back to topic - 0.08% or 0.1% is prefer maximum. Too much may result hazardous to your chamber and piston. Another thinking also that, with such low amount of 2T added, there are no significant changes noticable for engine in car (big cc). For smaller cc eg. 125cc or 250cc, the effect also not that significant.

 

IMHO - I wouldn't advised ppl trying 2T in petrol for car. Due to the cost of repair and complexity of engine make. Still not worthwhile to try, bikes tend to cheaper to overhaul and most simplest engine make are 2stroke 2B/2A version.

 

B4 the 4 stroke era, I rode Skipper, RK, RXZ, SP and then PGM. It feels that 2T lubricate the chamber and piston more. Significant negative effect was felt during my 4 stroke bike era. I owned before, super4, RVF, CBR, Joyride scooter, R6, SRAD then GSX1000. 1st i used 2T again on my super4 since its my 1st 4 stroke. No effect of 2T felt and so increase slightly more - end up, spark plugs dampen, retard low RPM and sluggish acceleration. Thats was when I stop using 2T in petrol."

one has spoken...

 

[bukitmerah]

 

From my POV, I would not recommend this method on an EFI bike. If it chokes the injectors, there goes your pocket. Engine oils will already be sufficient for the lubrications. Ester based EO is the highest grade to provide the best protection. Adding any additional may cause harm or none. You might not know what kind of chemical reactions it will do in the engine (EO with special formula + 2T + Petrol = maybe monster??). Maybe it works for Carb engines since most of these vehicles have passed the 5 year mark, where the pistons and cylinders have worn. With the additional 'lubrication', it helps to close up the holes for better combustion. Since in this subject, it is very important to use the correct viscosity of EO for the bike. EO too thin will cause the engine to 'eat' up the EO (you will always need to top up your EO). Too thick might cause more wear and tear in the future.

 

 

Anyway to share further, found this in HWZ forum (http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2444255)

 

"Back to topic - 0.08% or 0.1% is prefer maximum. Too much may result hazardous to your chamber and piston. Another thinking also that, with such low amount of 2T added, there are no significant changes noticable for engine in car (big cc). For smaller cc eg. 125cc or 250cc, the effect also not that significant.

 

IMHO - I wouldn't advised ppl trying 2T in petrol for car. Due to the cost of repair and complexity of engine make. Still not worthwhile to try, bikes tend to cheaper to overhaul and most simplest engine make are 2stroke 2B/2A version.

 

B4 the 4 stroke era, I rode Skipper, RK, RXZ, SP and then PGM. It feels that 2T lubricate the chamber and piston more. Significant negative effect was felt during my 4 stroke bike era. I owned before, super4, RVF, CBR, Joyride scooter, R6, SRAD then GSX1000. 1st i used 2T again on my super4 since its my 1st 4 stroke. No effect of 2T felt and so increase slightly more - end up, spark plugs dampen, retard low RPM and sluggish acceleration. Thats was when I stop using 2T in petrol."

 

Interesting, How come your experience is so different & opposite with the others that claim differently? is it due to different bikes ? But you all are talking about same carb bikes, right ? efi bikes got any one tried before ?

 

anyway, i got to agree that thinner 2t or 4t really "finish" very fast but "feels" "smoother", thicker oils "feels" more "rough" but use up more slow. both types got good & bad points leh.

 

yeah, another thing i experience with 2t is that the engine complains less at high speed.

 

normally without 2t, once i hit 110km/h on 6th, engine very noisy and screaming.

 

with 2t, its quieter by abit, so i dare to push it more. to 130kmh.

 

 

agan, i am not a techical guy, so i don't know the exact idea of why i get increased fuel efficiency (leaner mixture?) and less engine noise at high speed, but it works. simple as that. for me at least.

 

EFI bikes probably do not need as it is already a very efficient system.

 

I swear its not exaggeration. The Rpms really do drop by about 300. I guess its the engine not working as hard as it used to keep up at that speed.

 

One example is when you throttle hard to reach 100. The RPM goes higher than you are simply cruising at 100. Its because the engine is working hard to get there right? But once you hit 100 and ease the throttle. Its cruising at the same speed but lower rpm.

 

But why engine rpm is not in direct parallel relation to the rate bike is moving i do not know too.

 

2 words. Rider satisfaction.

 

Its not about speed and power. Add 2t and feel happier when riding. Engine smoother, run higher speeds not so hard pain when engine is not tearing itself apart so much. Decreased wear and tear = longer engine lifespan. Think about it, 1 bottle of good 2t cost $20.

 

$20 divided by few months = few dollars a month only.

 

If riding 2b 4 stroke is ONLY for budget. People should not buy spark135, x1R, R15, phantom, Gilera Runner etc.. Just get a Honda cub C90. So cheap and so durable.

 

Rider satisfaction and passion for the machine you ride:)

 

Point understood & taken.

Edited September 3, 2011 by bukitmerah

[Hydher]

I tried this today. Dont want to speak too early. Let me try a few tank fulls first. hehehe.

 

Product on trial is shell VSX $6.20 for 500ml

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

2t is a lubricant, not a fuel which means that it does not contribute to the combustion energy, yet it is taking up mass which could otherwise be fuel. so this combo cannot produce more potential power than one using straight fuel.

 

Compensate with fuel-air mixture enrichment; stock intake and exhaust would lead to unstable combustion from a too rich mixture but derestricted intake and accelerated exhaust (by whatever means) balances out the equation again.

 

Air cooled bikes hate lean mixtures, as always stated by Phantom Knights' seniors, so lean mixtures are almost never run outside of hypermiling experiments. Everyone maintains a slightly rich mixture and adjustments are easily done based on rider feedback.

 

For a knock-limited or temperature limited air cooled engine the little 20ml bit of 2T can make a big difference in top end horsepower by acting as an anti-detonant. No need fancy water injection systems.

 

@CSV - I tested up to 140kph ; we're probably running similar settings.

[rxgn]

what type and brand of 2t you guys using?

 

planning to use the 2t as chain lube too

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

what type and brand of 2t you guys using?

 

planning to use the 2t as chain lube too

 

I'm using Shell Advance. The yellow bottle one. This is the "economy" option, maximum bang for the buck.

 

Others have success with high grade 2T such as Motul (full synthetic?).

 

If you have access to Marine 2T for boat engines (TCW spec), that's actually the ultimate 2T for this purpose, based on testing by American riders and drivers.

[rxgn]

2t as chain lube, should work just fine right?

[Pandoras Kitten 3]

2t as chain lube, should work just fine right?

 

I see no problem there. During my many cub riding years I used 2T and used 4T as chain lube while living in remote areas / visiting relatives in Bolehland.

 

Back then my standard chain lube was Singer sewing machine oil which did perfectly fine (weekly oiling or once every 500km).

 

Best results - use a brush and apply by hand. 2T ain't exactly cheap, as budget chain lubes can be had for $8 a can.

[Limhg]

2t as chain lube, should work just fine right?

 

Its not as good as 4t. I tried it for a few weeks, it sticky when dried. However, it sticks all the road debris also. I guess its cleaner when its burned. Just get a can of chain lube is much cleaner and easier to apply. Note: the oils that we use might damage the O-rings on O-rings chain over time. Rubber plus oil = not so good right?

[ezzyoiler]

woah....engine oils 2t or 4t are complex...u want to know more about it..attend a tribology class...

 

What’s in your Motor Oil

 

I’m sure this is not new to many here and has been covered to various degrees in the past, but there are many newer members who wish to understand more about what is in a motor oil. To those I hope this may be helpful. To the professionals, chemists, and purists, don’t get too picky as this is written in layman terms to be understandable to the average guy.

Tom NJ

To a formulator, a motor oil is a complex blend of 10-15 ingredients carefully balanced and tested to meet the industry specifications and market claims. To a blender it can be as simple as mixing three liquids together and filling it into bottles. And to the consumer it is, for the most part, a mysterious golden fluid with confusing numbers and letters that all make the same claims about being the best product possible for your car. In reality, it is all of these things.

While some oil producers blend many individual components to make their motor oils, most oils are made by simply blending three fluids; a DI package, a VI improver, and a base oil. These fluids, however, are the complex products of extensive research and technology. Following is a brief summary of each:

DI Package

An acronym for Detergent Inhibitor package, this thick dark fluid is a concentrated cocktail containing most of the performance additives needed to formulate an oil. DI packs are generally made by additive companies, the largest of which are Lubrizol (independent), Oronite (a Chevron Texaco company), and Infineum (ExxonMobil/Shell joint venture). These companies have extensive R&D facilities with numerous engine test stands for developing and qualifying motor oil formulations against various global standards. The development and testing costs are so high that they are beyond the reach of many oil blenders and marketers, so the work is usually left to these experts to concoct the formulation and give it to their customers. Naturally the approvals (SM, CF etc.) are only valid if one follows the formula, which requires that you use their DI pack in approved base oils. Some majors develop their own proprietary additive systems and buy the components instead of the complete package.

The DI pack for an SM/CF passenger car motor oil is jam packed full of goodies as follows:

Dispersants: These are chemicals that can disperse and suspend solid particles formed in the combustion of fuel that might otherwise be deposited in your engine as sludge. Consisting mainly of polyamine chemistry, these molecules have “polar heads” that attach to acidic molecules and solids such as soot, and a hydrocarbon tail that keeps it all in suspension until removed by the filter or oil change. Think of them as pollywogs who surround a particle – the fat heads bite the particle and the tails keeps them swimming. Dispersants are the largest component in the DI pack, especially in diesel formulations where there are a lot more soot particles to deal with.

Detergents: Also polar in nature, these “organometalic” products made from organic chemicals and metals are responsible for neutralizing acids formed during the combustion process, and cleaning the engine from high temperature deposits by removing and preventing the adherence of deposit precursors. Some detergents are “overbased”, that is, forced to contain more metal atoms than they really want to, and are best at neutralizing acid by-products. Others are “neutral” detergents which are somewhat more effective at the cleaning process. The most common metal atoms used are Calcium (Ca), Magnesium (Mg), and Sodium (Na), and these are all measurable in the UOA and VOA analysis. The organic portions are usually sulfonates, phenates, and salicylates.

Friction Modifiers: Often esters or partial esters, these additives are very polar, thus attaching to metal surfaces to improve lubricity. FMs are used to improve fuel economy, as opposed to reducing wear, and are additive to the effects of lower viscosity.

Seal Conditioners: Also often esters, seal conditioners are potent additives used in small dosages and designed to keep sealspliable. These are especially important for highly paraffinic base oils such as Group IIIs or PAOs due to the tendency of these base oils to shrink and harden seals.

Zinc Dialkyldithiophosphate: Affectionately known as “ZDDP”, this miracle multi-purpose chemical and has been the chief anti-wear (AW), extreme pressure (EP), and anti-oxidant (AO) additive for decades. It is so effective and low cost that it is virtually irreplaceable, which is why it survives all efforts to remove phosphorus (P) from oils to protect the catalyst. With modern oils putting caps on the maximum P allowed, other additives are now being used to supplement this old standard, such as Molybdenum anti-wear compounds and ashless anti-oxidants. There are different types of ZDDPs including primaries, secondaries, and aryls, each with its own strengths & weaknesses, and the mix is balanced to the type of service the oil will see.

Anti-Oxidants: These sacrificial molecules react preferentially with oxygen to protect the other components from the degrading effects of oxidation. While oxygen is 21% of the air we breath, most people don’t realize that in its pure form it is so reactive it is considered a flammable gas! Even diluted in air, it is everywhere and wants to react with just about everything if conditions are right, such as high temperatures. Oxidation, the reaction with oxygen, is the main cause of oil thickening and left unchecked will lead to varnish and carbon deposits as well. With the ZDDP being reduced, supplemental AOs are more critical in modern oils and usually more than one kind is used to capitalize on the common synergistic properties they possess. The most common types are phenolics and amines.

Rust & Corrosion Inhibitors: These additives are smaller in dosage and are designed to protect iron alloys and yellow metals from corrosion induced by oxygen, acids and water. They work by attaching to metal surfaces and therefore compete with some other additives and base oils, so balance is critical.

Pour Point Depressants: These polymeric molecules interfere with the formation and growth of wax crystals from residual paraffins. They are generally not needed in full PAO and ester based oils since they contain no wax.

Anti-Foams: Often silicone products, these molecules are not soluble and work by suspending tiny micron sized droplets that prevent foam from forming or help the foam break faster.

Diluent Oil: Also called carrier oil, this component is usually mineral oil and is present at about 5-20% in the DI pack to solubilize all the additives and adjust the package to a consistent and manageable viscosity for pumping and blending.

Finished DI packages will vary in chemistry, balance, and dosage according to what kind of oil you are making. For example heavy duty diesel DIs will have more dispersants and be used at dosages up to about 15% of the finished oil. Passenger car/light truck DIs have less ZDDP and more anti-oxidants and are generally dosed at about 8-12%.

Viscosity Index Improvers

Abbreviated VIIs, these are huge polymeric molecules, often with molecular weights in the millions. Their purpose is to improve the viscosity index of the finished oil so that multi-grades can be made.

All organic liquids will thin out when heated and thicken up when cooled, but they don’t all do so at the same rate. Viscosity Index is simply a scale to compare the rate of viscosity change with temperature among different fluids. A fluid that thins more upon heating (and therefore thickens more upon cooling) has a lower VI than one that thins less and thickens less. Or put another way, higher VI oils change their viscosity less when the temperature changes. This can be a good property for lubricants that are used in a wide temperature range.

The VI scale was originally established by assigning a value of “0″ (zero) to the worse known base oil at the time, and “100″ to the best. The theory was that all other base oils would then fall between these end points. Apparently they didn’t anticipate synthetics or hydrocracked mineral oils back then.

The way VI Improvers work is that the huge molecules tend to coil up into balls when cold, thus having little effect on the oil’s flow (viscosity). When hot, however, the molecules uncoil and stretch out, thus interfering with the flow of the oil and causing an increase in viscosity (actually a reduction in thinning, but let’s not get technical). If you put these molecules into a light 5W base oil, the low temperature viscosity is little affected, i.e. remains a 5W, but the high temperature viscosity rises, giving for example a 5W-30 multi-grade. By reducing the thinning effect of heat, the Viscosity Index of the finished oil is increased.

VI Improvers are available an various chemistries and forms. Some are solids that need to be dissolved in the oil, but most are pre-dissolved in a carrier oil to give a thick, honey-like liquid that is easier to handle and faster to blend. Dosages are usually under 10% and vary with the VII chemistry, target oil grade, and base oil type.

People tend to think that the less VI Improver the better, but that depends on the type of VI Improver used. Some are much more shear stable than others, and a higher quantity of a shear stable VII may be better than a lower quantity of a non-shear stable VII. In xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

if you want to know more contact me..

the list goes on......lubricants are specialised subjects...our knowlegde is miniscule compared to the expert...

 

those who wants to commend on this subject...please get the facts right...have seen a lot of untruths and half truths....and simply nonsensical recommendation to use all sorts

of liubricants not suited for use in bikes.....inho..

 

 

in ny humble opinion...

some may question my expertise on this subfect...just to clear the air..

i am..and still believe i am a practising retired engineer...and humbled by this

huge subject of tribology..

[byte77]

The data posted above are apparently the components of 4T oil.

2T is meant to burn so it is quite different.

 

Copy from somewhere:

 

TWO STROKE - Four major components make up modern two stroke oil.

 

BASE STOCK - a mineral or a synthetic base is used. Represents up to 80% of finished oil

BRIGHT STOCK/PIB– Added to improve lubricity at high temps. Air-cooled engines require more bright stock due to higher cylinder temps. It is used as a component of base stock to prevent scuffing and offer additional protection. Many modern oils use polyisobutane or PIB. Typically PIB is lower smoke and cleaner burning then bright stock. Represents up to 20% of finished oil.

SOLVENTS / DILUENTS – petroleum based solvents (Stoddard, white spirits) is added to improve the blending of the oil with gas. It also reduces the viscosity (friction) of oil to let it flow through injector systems at low outside temps. Represents up to 40% of finished oil.

DETERGENTS / ADDITIVES - Clean combustion deposits, provide corrosion protection, reduce ring sticking, power valve hang ups and plug fouling due to increased lubricity. There are two basic groups of additive packages: metal based and ash less. Represents up to 20% of finished oil.

 

 

FOUR STROKE (similar to what ezzyoiler posted above)

 

BASE STOCKS: mineral or synthetic base is used, account for 75-90% of the volume.

ADDITIVES: account for 7-20% of the volume.

1. Viscosity Modifiers – polymers that makes oil thicker when hot and thinner when cold, to create multi viscosity oil. First additives to wear out in oil.

2. Friction Modifiers/ Anti wear agents – protect engine internals from metal to metal wear. They are activated by heat and pressure.

· ZDDP (zinc/phosphorous) – Anti wear agent offering protection against metal-to-metal contact. Also acts as an extreme pressure agent prevent excess wear on transmission gears. Shortens the life of oxygen sensors and catalytic converters on sutomobiles.

· Moly (molybdenum disulphide) - a friction modifier that in high concentrations will cause clutch slippage. Used in automobile oils to increase gas mileage.

3. Antioxidants – prevent gum and sludge (thickening/oxidation) that will occur when hot oil (at piston, ring, and cylinder walls during combustion) is exposed to oxygen in air

4. Detergents – release sludge and deposits that has build up or prevent sludge from building up inside the engine. They will help prevent piston rings from sticking in their groves

5. Acid neutralizers – absorb acid created during combustion. They are indicated by TBN (total base number) the higher the number the better protection against combusted acids.

6. Dispersants –ensure that foreign matter (dirt, steel chips, carbon, sludge) stay suspended so they can be caught in the filtration system.

7. Anti-rust /Corrosion Inhibitors – moisture and acids are generated in engines; these additives “marry” themselves to exposed steel surfaces that will prevent rusting.

8. Anti-foam Agents– at high RPM, silicone additives prevent foaming that starves bearings of the lubrication needed. These agents cause air bubbles to collapse by reducing surface tension.

9. Pour Point Depressants – used to help oil flow better in extreme cold temperatures.

Edited September 5, 2011 by byte77