Track Day Attitude - Johor Circuit Style

[ambasnakeman]

Very nicely written. Not sure how simpler can this get. Thanks to UNLCE DOL.

 

also to add, when riders stick up their hand or stick out their legs indicating they are gonna pit, faster riders pls dun overtake from the outside. stick to the inside. some could be pushing for lap time, but pls for safety.

 

and those riders gonna pit, stick to the extreme right, and dun make any last sec decisions of joining back into the track.

 

if any of u see, any similar idiots making mistake...complain to uncle dol or 5LK. they will literally screw them up.

[SMOKEYPIPE]

Well DONE !! Doc , rules are rules , now who is the POLICE ?? who to enforce it, guess if Syd & gang @ PG is short handed , then some kind of moderator appointment like SBF should be implemented !!! Now it seems even most of my friends are relectant to go on Track Days becos of the imminent danger,

Nothing wrong with newbies , I understand , all of us started as one, but to mix 1.45sec riders etc....with newbies is good formula for acidents to happen, we newbies brake at the wrong points , and really a slight twitch of the handle bar may even triggle a survival instinct E-brake !!!

 

Let's learn from other's mistakes made NOT made mistakes ourselves to learn

[mieyam]

WELL DONE.........,bro Dol very GOOD statement.........

[GuiNNeSS]

Good work, Shaiful.

 

I have been informed that Sepang officials have asked for more information on this recent tragedy, with a view to learn from it. It is good that they are interested even though Sepang is much better equipped and much more serious about keeping their reputation intact, than PG's owners.

[zzback]

WELL DOME BRO:thumb:

LETS ALL LEARN FROM THIS VERY SAD TRAGEDY!

[bluelabel]

I tot if you see someone/friend crash , Do not stop to help ..... Let the marshall assist????

 

My friend told me he got f by the sepang marshall cos he stop to assist his friend in a a crash .....

[Father John]

I tot if you see someone/friend crash , Do not stop to help ..... Let the marshall assist????

 

My friend told me he got f by the sepang marshall cos he stop to assist his friend in a a crash .....

 

If not wrong, Uncle Chendol was talking about PG. There, fellow trackies help each other. At Sepang, when I stopped to help, the marshall told me to move on. Sepang's safety is so much better than PG. The marshalls will settle the crashed rider, you go pit in safely. The marshall's don't want people stopping by the side of the lane and other's crashing into them.

[Aie]

Great effort on your part, Wak Dol. Thanks for the tips. Good read for me who has yet to play track...

[RedGixxer688]

Great effort on your part, Wak Dol. Thanks for the tips. Good read for me who has yet to play track...

 

Agreed bro! Hope more seniors on the track can contribuite more info/teachings like thes for newbies/first timers. Will definitely read this again and again before I go for my first track session!

[duracellb]

Good info Doc Dol.

 

May I suggest you update your first post on which track you are referring to? A simple sub-heading would be enough. Since this would be read by mostly newbies... with all the turn 2, 3 etc. Might be a little confusing for some. This is from a newbie's (myself) point of view (even though I know you are referring to PG).

 

And then you might want to have a Sepang version for 'Entering The Track' and 'Riding On The Track' sections.

 

Just some suggestions. Thanks for the useful info.

 

hi Unagi, the thread title reads "..Johor Circuit.." which is the track at Pasir Gudang. Hope that clarifies.

[bryantpck]

Thanks Doc DOL! Thanks for the efforts for the writeup!! I salute u!!

 

I believe this will educate the newbies that safety is the most important aspect on a racetrack and not lap times. This will further remind/enhance the safety sense to all experienced riders.

 

I have the same feeling as many who has posted here. Trackdays can be fun and fufilling to alot of people if people just observe more safety rules on the racetrack. But stories of wanabe racers trying to show that they have more balls and a bigger ego than others on trackdays is scaring alot of other riders. Trackdays should be competitive yet safe.

 

I always go down to PG on saturdays and enjoyed sparring with my friends on the track. I enjoyed listening and learning from the more experienced riders. They might be fast and experienced but yet humble and very willing to share what they know. Its the young breed of riders that scares me sometimes because what they want to prove is that they can be faster than anyone else on the racetrack. This is to the extent of endangering others and even their own friends' lives.

 

All I want to gain from the racetrack is to know more about my bike and myself. I want to learn as much of that with each track session. To me, motorbiking and track riding is worth a whole life to learn about and I could never learn enough of that. Hope many other riders also feel this way!

 

Lastly, thanks again for your writeup!!

[GrimReaper]

Doc Dol. Please print those rules and request to be framed and pasted in PG Track. Should be pasted in the pits for the first timers to read, cos i know that some track goers are newbies but they arent sbf formers. hence they might know of this entire situation at all.

[ehem]

an addition to Dr Dol's efforts..

 

perhaps those trained in 1st Aid or current hospital paramedics can step out to identitfy urselves whenever at the track. especially in PG, i dont think they are trained properly to attend to crash victims. I heard that when the accident happened, the PG officials removed his helmet? I dont know how true this is, but that is not right. Perhaps someone there who knows the proper procedure should have stopped them from removing his helmet. This action could have aggravated the injury.

 

1st thing that should have been done is to maintain conversation and not allow the injured to fall asleep(if he was still conscious), 2nd step is to find out if he has difficulties breathing(if he does, then find a way to ease his breathing, eg: breathing apparatus/tilt head) and check if any bones broke, by asking the injured to move all limbs(moving slightly will be enough), and normally, what the injured guy cant feel means that it is likely to be broken. after that, then u can decide whether or not u can turn the injured over/or remove helmet or even gloves for that matter.. the best way is to cut the clothing off the injured.(eg: injured guy cant feel/move leg, so cut open his leather suit and boots to look for swelling/broken bone. once u can establish his leg is broken, u can support the leg using 3 planks of wood; bottom and 2 sides, strapping down the top and bottom of the legs.) Any spinal injury, then u must not move the injured person at all, let the professional paramedics move the injured guy instead. These the most basic of all 1st aid...

 

Its simple, if u dont know how to handle, then dont touch at all. U might jz be making things worse. but if u already see ppl tending to the injured and see something wrong, pls do stop them. I survived my major accident due to ppl who knew what to do. i broke my leg, my ribs and my lung collapsed. For all i know, if they had turned my body over, my broken ribs might have juz punctured my lungs. and i may not have survived to ride today.

 

Safety and discipline all come together... but accidents will still happen, so what happens next, could be the deciding factor whether that person is to survive or not.

[DeusExMachina]

Ultimately, the PG management are the ones who MUST do something to improve trackday safety.

 

With so many paying participants, they should hire an ambulance and medical crew to stand by. And they should get proper marshals to station along the track with the appropriate flags. Most importantly, they should conduct a pre-session and pre-race briefing. Errant riders should be black-flagged and unceremoniously ejected from the track for the remainder of the day.

 

The final equation is not in their hands, but in the hands of the participants. Let common sense guide the riders through their session. Everyone will go home safe and happy if we can achieve this.

[duckcula]

Great job listing the Track Day Attitude....but not everyone who rides/tracks is in this forum or reads these threads.

 

Have such a listing pasted on the Notice Board clearly in the Pits should help. Whoever is new probably will take a look at the track layout map, next to it should do fine i guess....

 

Ride Safe!

[ambasnakeman]

is this thread made STICKY? or its been done and i see it differently in my PC?

 

Raptor, pls make this sticky....the first post will do? and maybe subject header as MUST READ or something

[asjunior]

is this thread made STICKY? or its been done and i see it differently in my PC?

 

Raptor, pls make this sticky....the first post will do? and maybe subject header as MUST READ or something

 

Only Suggestion: Why not Pg official hand over this "Do & Don't" Rules

to all the registered rider once they had pay at the Registration Office before they execute the track tarmac.........

Just suggestion only....

[Raptor]

is this thread made STICKY? or its been done and i see it differently in my PC?

 

Raptor, pls make this sticky....the first post will do? and maybe subject header as MUST READ or something

 

Darlink... I did make it sticky initially, but Doctor Dol PMed me and ask me to unstick it coz he says that most people don't pay attention to the sticky threads.

 

It will stay unstuck until he request for it to be stuck. Muakzzzz!!!!

[Raptor]

Only Suggestion: Why not Pg official hand over this "Do & Don't" Rules

to all the registered rider once they had pay at the Registration Office before they execute the track tarmac.........

Just suggestion only....

 

They should follow how track days are run over here in the USA.

 

Have a form on the table... where you have to read the rules and the dos and donts and then sign in acknowledgement.

 

And then all riders must attend a safety briefing and also the dos and donts before they let you out on the track.

[sabbaha]

an addition to Dr Dol's efforts..

 

perhaps those trained in 1st Aid or current hospital paramedics can step out to identitfy urselves whenever at the track. especially in PG, i dont think they are trained properly to attend to crash victims. I heard that when the accident happened, the PG officials removed his helmet? I dont know how true this is, but that is not right. Perhaps someone there who knows the proper procedure should have stopped them from removing his helmet. This action could have aggravated the injury.

 

1st thing that should have been done is to maintain conversation and not allow the injured to fall asleep(if he was still conscious), 2nd step is to find out if he has difficulties breathing(if he does, then find a way to ease his breathing, eg: breathing apparatus/tilt head) and check if any bones broke, by asking the injured to move all limbs(moving slightly will be enough), and normally, what the injured guy cant feel means that it is likely to be broken. after that, then u can decide whether or not u can turn the injured over/or remove helmet or even gloves for that matter.. the best way is to cut the clothing off the injured.(eg: injured guy cant feel/move leg, so cut open his leather suit and boots to look for swelling/broken bone. once u can establish his leg is broken, u can support the leg using 3 planks of wood; bottom and 2 sides, strapping down the top and bottom of the legs.) Any spinal injury, then u must not move the injured person at all, let the professional paramedics move the injured guy instead. These the most basic of all 1st aid...

 

Its simple, if u dont know how to handle, then dont touch at all. U might jz be making things worse. but if u already see ppl tending to the injured and see something wrong, pls do stop them. I survived my major accident due to ppl who knew what to do. i broke my leg, my ribs and my lung collapsed. For all i know, if they had turned my body over, my broken ribs might have juz punctured my lungs. and i may not have survived to ride today.

 

Safety and discipline all come together... but accidents will still happen, so what happens next, could be the deciding factor whether that person is to survive or not.

 

Thanks for the addition! Another great piece of write-up where i've learnt for 1st aid too!!!

[ambasnakeman]

ENTERING THE PIT

Signal your intention early. Raise your left hand high up and keep extreme right from turn 8, 9 and 10. Sudden sticking out of leg after turn 10(BMW) is inappropriate.

 

I think this topic need to be further argued/discussed for the better. After having a discussion with fellow riders and mentors....i think this is NOT the safest way to enter the pit in johor circuit.

 

reason, its an awful long way before even close to pit entrance which is at turn 11.

 

eg.

Rider A raises right hand, sticks to the right and prepares for track entrance like u mentioned....there is a chance, he might be doing the BMW one hander(this itself is a risk for a newbie). So, he in his ultra slow pace is now at the inner apex of turn 9(bmw entrance).....

 

Rider B approaches turn 9 at a very fast speed, trail braking into the corner...

 

whats gonna happen? even if he misses turn 9. his lining for turn 10 is out. what are the chances he gona crash in to another rider at turn 10.

 

already, a rider has plenty of details to look out for....including being sensitive to his machine's reactions...and now he has to look for a hand each time he enter BMW. also, there is someone going to pit every few laps. so, when is this rider ever gonna do a proper line on BMW?

 

2 weeks before asia pac 2006 at Johor Circuit, Hamaguchi and Abel were praticing at Johor Circuit. When hama when to pit entrance, he was still doing his racing lines, and dashed right towards pit entrance, and only when he was off the racing line, he started to slow down. thats is when he was off turn 11 racing line. this practice was carried out by riders during asia pac at sepang circuit this year. no one raises their hands or sticks out their legs from turn 5 or 6 at sepang. this were top class asian racers, and i think its a good thing to learn from them.

 

i just feel that, so long a track day rider is on the track, he or she should be just consistent with where they want to go. even slowing down at the exit of bmw is not a good practice....like myself, when i exit bmw, i hit the rumble strip quite far out at times. at this point, if a rider who decides to pit was on the left of me, and he sticks out his leg and slows down, while i am at full throttle....hazard is waiting. but if the rider is going to pit still charges, and gets off racing line at turn 11, we would have relatively be safe from each other as i am going left, and he wouldnt have been blocking my line.

 

i think my words are not put together properly, so pls share ur views.

[Doctor DOL 46]

I think this topic need to be further argued/discussed for the better. After having a discussion with fellow riders and mentors....i think this is NOT the safest way to enter the pit in johor circuit.

 

reason, its an awful long way before even close to pit entrance which is at turn 11.

 

eg.

Rider A raises right hand, sticks to the right and prepares for track entrance like u mentioned....there is a chance, he might be doing the BMW one hander(this itself is a risk for a newbie). So, he in his ultra slow pace is now at the inner apex of turn 9(bmw entrance).....

 

Rider B approaches turn 9 at a very fast speed, trail braking into the corner...

 

whats gonna happen? even if he misses turn 9. his lining for turn 10 is out. what are the chances he gona crash in to another rider at turn 10.

 

already, a rider has plenty of details to look out for....including being sensitive to his machine's reactions...and now he has to look for a hand each time he enter BMW. also, there is someone going to pit every few laps. so, when is this rider ever gonna do a proper line on BMW?

 

2 weeks before asia pac 2006 at Johor Circuit, Hamaguchi and Abel were praticing at Johor Circuit. When hama when to pit entrance, he was still doing his racing lines, and dashed right towards pit entrance, and only when he was off the racing line, he started to slow down. thats is when he was off turn 11 racing line. this practice was carried out by riders during asia pac at sepang circuit this year. no one raises their hands or sticks out their legs from turn 5 or 6 at sepang. this were top class asian racers, and i think its a good thing to learn from them.

 

i just feel that, so long a track day rider is on the track, he or she should be just consistent with where they want to go. even slowing down at the exit of bmw is not a good practice....like myself, when i exit bmw, i hit the rumble strip quite far out at times. at this point, if a rider who decides to pit was on the left of me, and he sticks out his leg and slows down, while i am at full throttle....hazard is waiting. but if the rider is going to pit still charges, and gets off racing line at turn 11, we would have relatively be safe from each other as i am going left, and he wouldnt have been blocking my line.

 

i think my words are not put together properly, so pls share ur views.

 

These Track Safety are drafted out for the purpose of TRACK DAY (3hr RM80)

 

Please DO NOT mix TRACK DAY (3hr RM80) with Normal Practise Day

 

On TRACK DAY, there is more than 80bikes vs Normal Practise Day below 20bikes.

 

Hence, slow down and signalling early b4 entering pit is the wisest thing to do.. Just like riding alone on the streets, most dont signal.. But when you riding in a group, u signal early to indicate to your fellow frens that you are about to turn.. Its the same here when bike are everywhere during track day versus when the track is almost empty during normal practise day..

 

As for Racers that plan to improve LAPTIME during Track Day, THINK AGAIN!!!

 

Please DO NOT mix TRACK DAY Rider and Racer.

 

When Track Day Rider and Racer are mix together, speed and race line will differ.

 

So, since its a TRACK DAY, track day rider, racer, newbie, etc are all on the track at the same time, WE should ALL practise TRACK SAFETY in ONE WAY.

 

As for the Asia Pac Racer, those are different level rider. Usually, racer and racer understand each other very well coz they always ride together everytime.

 

Here, we are talking about TRACK DAY where more than 80 riders barely knows each others riding style. Its like a ROJAK. It doesnt hurt to practise Safety way earlier as it will gives ample warning to approaching riders of the intention of front rider.

 

ENTERING PIT

 

After TURN 8 (uphill towards Turn 9 BMW), LEFT HAND RAISED UP HIGH, KEEP EXTREME RIGHT, SLOW DOWN, KEEP RIGHT(INSIDE) TURN 9 AND KEEP RIGHT AT TURN 10(OUTSIDE) ALL THE WAY TO PIT ENTRY..

 

OF COURSE WHILE TAKING TURN 9 and 10 i dont expect a newbie to ride with ONE HAND..

 

But at least his intention to PIT had been signalled while goin up hill after Turn 8 and with him Keeping Extreme RIGHT SIDE will also be a form of signal to approching riders..

[Doctor DOL 46]

eg.

Rider A raises right hand, sticks to the right and prepares for track entrance like u mentioned....there is a chance, he might be doing the BMW one hander(this itself is a risk for a newbie). So, he in his ultra slow pace is now at the inner apex of turn 9(bmw entrance).....

 

Rider B approaches turn 9 at a very fast speed, trail braking into the corner...

 

whats gonna happen? even if he misses turn 9. his lining for turn 10 is out. what are the chances he gona crash in to another rider at turn 10.

 

already, a rider has plenty of details to look out for....including being sensitive to his machine's reactions...and now he has to look for a hand each time he enter BMW. also, there is someone going to pit every few laps. so, when is this rider ever gonna do a proper line on BMW?

QUOTE]

 

Solution for Rider B is to practise and improve his laptime on NORMAL Practise Day.. STAY AWAY FROM TRACK DAY..

 

On TRACK DAY, it is supposed to be a FUN Day where all riders/racers meet up, mingle arnd, exchange views, while having FUN on the track and in the PIT while the TRACK Safety being observed with EXTRA CARE..

[redbeacon]

i just feel that, so long a track day rider is on the track, he or she should be just consistent with where they want to go. even slowing down at the exit of bmw is not a good practice....

 

i think my words are not put together properly, so pls share ur views.

 

That anecdote was easy for me to understand. It even had me thinking as well...

 

=====

 

As a self-proclaimed track newbie and a youngster like me, I still do my rounds around the track -- refining my lines, trying to "get a feel" of the environment on the move, and to push my limits further, bit-by-bit.

 

With the passing of one of our rider from a freakish accident like that, it had me wondering whether every maneuver that I did the past few track sessions were (put it this way) appropriate for everyone else's safety, especially after I've read the various comments submitted by a lot of the seasoned track-goers here. Of course, this is taken with regards that track stunts on the racetrack, such as impromptu wheelies/stoppies, definitely are a no-no as it dangerously disrupts an oncoming rider's path.

 

Whilst I try my best to maintain a predictable line for other faster riders --or simply perceive the "non-dangerous" way to do it (really not sure whether I have to do that everytime) -- I have read accounts such as riders having smaller bikers cutting them dangerously, riders executing unpredictable cornering with multiple apexes even for a simple corner, just to name some examples.

 

All these did put me back into my seat, wondering whether I myself was doing the right things, and whether I was not compromising the safety of other riders who share the very same racetrack as I was.

 

Bunching many racers' quotes into a phrase: When you go track-riding (ditto racing), you are already creating an "emergency situation" for yourself on the track. Also, the track is for riders to push one's limits as well.

 

Question thus far: As a fresh track-rider like me, should I wholeheartedly be focusing on not compromising the safety of other riders while I push myself to the limits, or would some "good track ethics" suffice?

 

I'm speaking all of this alongside the emphasis on cornering. I do study it, maneuver, and to experiment my limits going through it, and if there are a lot of advisories that I have to take in, I would have to think along the lines of "single-person", weekday track-time as it would be impossible to practice anymore if this is as such

 

I hope riders here with much expertise and track time can shed some light as I'm confused on what is correct and what is considered unethical -- close to the point of being a hazard.

 

 

 

God bless Marcus' soul.

[redbeacon]

These Track Safety are drafted out for the purpose of TRACK DAY (3hr RM80)

 

Please DO NOT mix TRACK DAY (3hr RM80) with Normal Practise Day

 

On TRACK DAY, there is more than 80bikes vs Normal Practise Day below 20bikes.

 

As for Racers that plan to improve LAPTIME during Track Day, THINK AGAIN!!!

Please DO NOT mix TRACK DAY Rider and Racer.

 

When Track Day Rider and Racer are mix together, speed and race line will differ.

 

Here, we are talking about TRACK DAY where more than 80 riders barely knows each others riding style. Its like a ROJAK. It doesnt hurt to practise Safety way earlier as it will gives ample warning to approaching riders of the intention of front rider.

 

Mr S.,

you have just answered my question right while I was typing my question. Thank you so much

 

Maybe it'll be good to have a mix of both, but in certain kind of "moderation"