Discrimination against m'cycles/cyclists/

[Keynes]

Hi.

 

I feel in this modern nation we live in, we still face discrimination against motorcycles/cyclists.

 

I'd like to cite the following examples:-

 

1) when buy personal accident insurance from NTUC, if we declare we are motorcyclists, a 10% additional premiun will be charged,

 

2) when we go petrol station, nobody help to pump, petrol station don't wash bikes, although we are ready to pay,

 

3) some shopping centres totally ban parking for bikes,

 

4) both Sentosa and PSA port ban bikes totally,

 

5) "Motorcycles and slower traffic, keep left" signs along E'ways,

 

6) Media portrays m'cyclists as speeding, weaving in and out of traffic,

 

7) Police often classifed bike accidents as "loss of control", often fail to understand or find out why he out of control.

 

Your opinions, please.

[ThePole]

Add 2 more points:

 

1. Other road users feels that they have every right to ask us to give way. May even treat us invisible. I was riding in the middle of the 2nd lane on PIE, a car honk me to move left so he can pass me. Aren't they suppose to do something call "overtaking"? If buses see bikes coming, they heck care just turn out.

 

2. Shopping mall "allows" illegal parking for bikes. The parking of bikes in Suntec yesterday was super pathetic.

[Nicholai]

Add 2 more points:

 

1. Other road users feels that they have every right to ask us to give way. May even treat us invisible. I was riding in the middle of the 2nd lane on PIE, a car honk me to move left so he can pass me. Aren't they suppose to do something call "overtaking"? If buses see bikes coming, they heck care just turn out.

 

2. Shopping mall "allows" illegal parking for bikes. The parking of bikes in Suntec yesterday was super pathetic.

 

Agree with you of the "discrimination" but I need to comment on point 2, maybe it is because that most shopping malls that allow motorcycle to use their parking facilities do not charge the motorcyclists for parking, thus, the "pathetic-ness" of the motorcycle lots. At the same time, there are shopping malls that provide motorcycles with free parking but with better lots. It is a win-win situation for riders, unless of course no parking for motorcycles at all like those in Orchard Road, which I do not prefer to patronize for some other reasons. Maybe, the reason you encountered the "pathetic-ness" at Suntec City yesterday was because they had the PC Show on. Still, discrimination of any 2-wheelers live on in this island, no doubt about that.

[guanjie]

Hi.

 

I feel in this modern nation we live in, we still face discrimination against motorcycles/cyclists.

 

I'd like to cite the following examples:-

 

1) when buy personal accident insurance from NTUC, if we declare we are motorcyclists, a 10% additional premiun will be charged,

 

2) when we go petrol station, nobody help to pump, petrol station don't wash bikes, although we are ready to pay,

 

3) some shopping centres totally ban parking for bikes,

 

4) both Sentosa and PSA port ban bikes totally,

 

5) "Motorcycles and slower traffic, keep left" signs along E'ways,

 

6) Media portrays m'cyclists as speeding, weaving in and out of traffic,

 

7) Police often classifed bike accidents as "loss of control", often fail to understand or find out why he out of control.

 

Your opinions, please.

 

actually this is partially untrue.. some will wash it for u if u ask.. and i believe its quite redundant to pump petrol for bikes cos a its a matter of a few litres.

 

this is infuriating

[Speedpass]

PSA ban bikes for a reason . I thinks its due to the movements of the containers . Wat if the cranes were to drop the containers n a bike happen to pass by ?

[thatone1]

then sentosa will say it bans bikes for safety reason too..

 

i would also like to try riding in sentosa.. it's a superb racetrack with all the curves there.

[mi5trooper]

if a bike and a bicyle involve in an accident. (let presume it is the bicyle who are the rackless. both bike e brake and and bicyle guy fall down becos of this e braking). who do u think it is going to be pin down if it involve in tp? (let presume again that the fall of the bicyle guy is self fall down and he didn't really ram into you or etc). ya. that's ride. the moto bike person are mostlike the one going to be awarded with demerit and fine (moto bike are the one with an engine, thus the moto bike is most likely the one to be in the wrong).

 

Do you feel unfair? i presume u do.

 

Now let put this case in to a car and a moto bike? the car will most likely be pin as the wrong party. do you feel unfair? I presume u do too.

 

The moral of this story is, our rules and law are make. however, if the enforcer didn't really put the whole heart to learn about the true, (this stagement is base on if only), unjust may appear.

[gnayed]

Now let put this case in to a car and a moto bike? the car will most likely be pin as the wrong party. do you feel unfair? I presume u do too.

 

The moral of this story is, our rules and law are make. however, if the enforcer didn't really put the whole heart to learn about the true, (this stagement is base on if only), unjust may appear.

I beg to differ. Usually when a motorcycle and motor-car get involved in an ambiguous accident, the rider is usually the one perceived to be the cause of accident due to personal negligence and technical deficiency. Nothing to do with the driver. This is nothing but a little of discrimination.

[roseonfire]

 

 

2) when we go petrol station, nobody help to pump, petrol station don't wash bikes, although we are ready to pay,

 

3) some shopping centres totally ban parking for bikes,

 

 

5) "Motorcycles and slower traffic, keep left" signs along E'ways,

 

6) Media portrays m'cyclists as speeding, weaving in and out of traffic,

 

7) Police often classifed bike accidents as "loss of control", often fail to understand or find out why he out of control.

 

Number 2. usually wen i go petrol kiosk.. when i struggle with d stuff.. they offer to help me pump but i politely say no thanks.. So they do help motorcyclists.. its just dat usually guys show dat kinda face that they noe everything so the pump attendants dun bother to help. If u look helpless, they will help.

 

Number 3. Maybe d carpark aredi is small n cant afford to have for bikes..

 

Number 5. Its for our own safety.. but anyway most of us dun follow it.. so why blame others? If only we all keep left.. not much of bike accidents will take place.

 

Number 6. Its true wat. Bikes.. esp big bikes.. weave in and out at such high speeds.. it looks cool but wen accidents occur its not so cool.. best place to practice ur skills is at track.. not on sg roads.

 

Number 7. Its the most common reason.. Coz we r alwys going so fast.. and ofcoz wen emergency occurs we cant stop on time or we get knocked down.. so out of control =)

[omnislash]

then sentosa will say it bans bikes for safety reason too..

 

i would also like to try riding in sentosa.. it's a superb racetrack with all the curves there.

 

Erm.... Maybe thats one of the reasons why we are discriminated...

[Nicholai]

Number 2. usually wen i go petrol kiosk.. when i struggle with d stuff.. they offer to help me pump but i politely say no thanks.. So they do help motorcyclists.. its just dat usually guys show dat kinda face that they noe everything so the pump attendants dun bother to help. If u look helpless, they will help.

 

Number 3. Maybe d carpark aredi is small n cant afford to have for bikes..

 

Number 5. Its for our own safety.. but anyway most of us dun follow it.. so why blame others? If only we all keep left.. not much of bike accidents will take place.

 

Number 6. Its true wat. Bikes.. esp big bikes.. weave in and out at such high speeds.. it looks cool but wen accidents occur its not so cool.. best place to practice ur skills is at track.. not on sg roads.

 

Number 7. Its the most common reason.. Coz we r alwys going so fast.. and ofcoz wen emergency occurs we cant stop on time or we get knocked down.. so out of control =)

 

Agreed and to add on, riders are literally performing "circus" act just by riding on the bike (ie. balancing on 2 wheels!!) ... they are trying to go against the law of nature through physics...

[Arcfire]

Number 5. Its for our own safety.. but anyway most of us dun follow it.. so why blame others? If only we all keep left.. not much of bike accidents will take place.

 

Number 7. Its the most common reason.. Coz we r alwys going so fast.. and ofcoz wen emergency occurs we cant stop on time or we get knocked down.. so out of control =)

 

 

I have to disagree on these 2 points. Why is it that motorcycles have to keep left? Is it because we are slow? I don't think so. Motorcycles nowadays are as fast if not faster than some sedans. Then is keeping left always the safest? I doubt so either. On the expressways, left lanes are taken up by lorries, container trucks and other humongous vehicles. Following behind these vehicles are even more dangerous than riding with a blindfold on. Furthermore, vehicles from filter lanes entering the expressways more often than not are also hazards.

 

Next point about control, do cars not lose control as well? even cars lose control. Remember the countless cars embedded in trees, the patrol car that rammed the hbd pillar? When is losing control really losing control? Its not so easy to determine the cause of losing control. And in most general situations, the rider is not often than not the one to bear the black wok.

[ImPeRzA]

PSA ban bikes for a reason . I thinks its due to the movements of the containers . Wat if the cranes were to drop the containers n a bike happen to pass by ?

 

 

And cars? i believe they will be flatten too ya?

[boofeng]

7) Police often classifed bike accidents as "loss of control", often fail to understand or find out why he out of control.

 

this is the only real problem, i think.

 

is it the fault of the rider or the driver, if the driver forces the bike into a "loss of control" situation, e.g. bike needs to evade or brake hard to avoid cars? and if you think this does not happen often, you need to look at accident studies from overseas (because singapore doesn't seem to have published any, and if they do they neglect this aspect).

 

is it the fault of the rider or the road builder, if road builders place bumps and metal covers in the centre of the lane so that it doesn't obstruct 4 wheeled vehicles, but is right under the biker's path? this is especially bad if the bumps are in corners, where bikes are even more at risk of losing control. do you know in japan they lay down super grippy material along some stretches of road? why can't we just smoothen our roads, or over-lay our metal covers with grippy material?

 

i think in these cases there is no absolute 100% fault... so simplifying bike accidents to "loss of control" without seeing HOW it happens, is real discrimination.

 

 

 

as for the other points:

 

1. of course they have to increase your premium if you do risky things. whether 10% is fair or not i don't know (seems rather high and arbitrary), but in general i accept that motorcyclists are at greater risk of accident/death.

 

2. yes this is true. but i think it's fair enough: you only provide perks to your bigger customers.

 

3. this isn't discrimination? maybe they're just sending a signal to bikers not to patronise their shops? if you don't like the parking situation don't buy things from them!

 

4. not sure about this...

 

5. i think everyone who's on the road, including the police, (except newbies) knows it's no longer valid. i do wish they would change the roadsigns sooner.

 

6. yes this is quite sad. is it discrimination... yes of a sort. is it serious? in the long run, yes i think. but not much can be done about this. it's not easy to change people's beliefs.

[GuiNNeSS]

the local authorities know many other drivers who usually travel lane 1 or 2 are very the goondoo. Dunno how to drive one. So they ask bikers to try to keep left lane to protect themselves against these drivers. Let the other goondoo drivers bang against each other, dun let the clever bikers bang against these goondoo drivers or let them have a chance to bang the bikers. So actually the authorities are taking care of bikers instead of discriminating against. you ppl think too much.... ppl wanna protect you, you say they discriminate you. Parents care about you too much, you say over protective. When you get into trouble, parents are first to help you. so be grateful la...

 

you still wanna travel on lane 1 and 2, up to you, authorities never stop you or enforce the law to fine you when you travel lane 1 or 2. so at your own risks la.

 

regarding loss of control, you can really sue the othe party (road builders, construction, other drivers) for all their fortune if you have a valid case. No joke. You can do it. That is provided do you really want to do it. You can make things happen, if you put your heart and mind into it.

[GuiNNeSS]

then sentosa will say it bans bikes for safety reason too..

 

i would also like to try riding in sentosa.. it's a superb racetrack with all the curves there.

 

 

I believe they ban motorcyclist because there's motorcyclist around with a mentality like your's.

[Arcfire]

the local authorities know many other drivers who usually travel lane 1 or 2 are very the goondoo. Dunno how to drive one. So they ask bikers to try to keep left lane to protect themselves against these drivers. Let the other goondoo drivers bang against each other, dun let the clever bikers bang against these goondoo drivers or let them have a chance to bang the bikers. So actually the authorities are taking care of bikers instead of discriminating against. you ppl think too much.... ppl wanna protect you, you say they discriminate you. Parents care about you too much, you say over protective. When you get into trouble, parents are first to help you. so be grateful la...

 

you still wanna travel on lane 1 and 2, up to you, authorities never stop you or enforce the law to fine you when you travel lane 1 or 2. so at your own risks la.

 

regarding loss of control, you can really sue the othe party (road builders, construction, other drivers) for all their fortune if you have a valid case. No joke. You can do it. That is provided do you really want to do it. You can make things happen, if you put your heart and mind into it.

 

I don't know which is worse, being hit by a goondoo driver in a camry or a goondoo driver in a sand/container truck.....

 

This is not the US where you can sue anyone for anything. If you can sue Phillip Morris here for getting cancer because you have been smoking Marlboros since 5, then anything is possible. But over here you'll get your case thrown out.

Last thing is, even if you want to, you need the moolah.....

[spaiduhz]

actually this is partially untrue.. some will wash it for u if u ask.. and i believe its quite redundant to pump petrol for bikes cos a its a matter of a few litres.

 

There was this one time i was filling up in JB. this malay dude was remarking...

 

(translated) "This guy... is he filling up a motorcycle or a car?!"

 

Large capacity tanks for the win.

[jamesgoh13]

I would say, its all pple mindset.

 

1. Petrol kiosk wana gain more profit therefore provide better services for cars. If we bikers can do it ourselves, wad for let others do it for u? Unlike those lazy bunch of drivers who need to use that service? When poor job was doned, den dey make a fuss out of it...Typical Singaporean Driver.

 

2. Keeping in the left lane doesn't mean it is safe all the time. Having a big vehicle blocking in front of u, any last min obstacles, u wun be able to hav the time for u to react. If ur speed is within the limits & u r not the one hogging up the road den there's no need to keep ourselves in the left.

 

3. In sg roads, I believe we riders shud hav the mindset of how to protect ourselves & prevent frm getting an accident. Cuz we all knw bikers will be in the losing end due to bike crashed, injuries all over or even death no doubt in theory or rules or laws u r rite. Therefore i would encourage safe riding for all.

 

All in all in singapore, all sorts of pple are around. Be it reckless riders/drivers, inconsiderate riders/drivers...All this bores down to the attitude of individuals.

[compfused]

Number 2. usually wen i go petrol kiosk.. when i struggle with d stuff.. they offer to help me pump but i politely say no thanks.. So they do help motorcyclists.. its just dat usually guys show dat kinda face that they noe everything so the pump attendants dun bother to help. If u look helpless, they will help.

Easy to say..Its because you're a girl..Double standards exist..Imagine a guy lookin helpless..What do you think the 1st thing that comes to the attendant's mind? Think on both sides..What may be good for female may not be good for males to follow..And vice versa..

 

Number 3. Maybe d carpark aredi is small n cant afford to have for bikes..

Maybe..

 

Number 5. Its for our own safety.. but anyway most of us dun follow it.. so why blame others? If only we all keep left.. not much of bike accidents will take place.

You think so? If all bikes and all bigger/long vehichles keep left..What will happen to the flow of traffic? More tailgatin..

 

Number 6. Its true wat. Bikes.. esp big bikes.. weave in and out at such high speeds.. it looks cool but wen accidents occur its not so cool.. best place to practice ur skills is at track.. not on sg roads.

I'm gonna assume you're sayin this coz you ride a small bike? Have you been ridin? No offence but Even the kups weave in and out..Its how they ride..Doesn't matter if its a big bike or small bike..

 

Number 7. Its the most common reason.. Coz we r alwys going so fast.. and ofcoz wen emergency occurs we cant stop on time or we get knocked down.. so out of control =)

Even when you're goin slow..In this case say you're goin at 70km/h..When somethin happens its only natural that you'll grip your brakes in an instant in which case will send you flyin or skiddin..We only have 2 tyres..That's how little contact we have on the road..Some experienced riders somehow are able to control the skids and may come out unscathed..But how many? I've even seen a TP hittin a bike while makin a U-turn at a junction..

[bensonloo]

Just some numbers from LTA and Police :

 

Year 2006 total vehicles population 615558

 

total motor cycles 139434

 

 

year 2006 total fatal by road users :

 

 

Motorcyclist and pillion rider 102

 

car driver and passengers 18

 

pedestrian 42

 

pedal cyclist 14

 

others (bus passengers etc) 14

 

 

 

Just take a few seconds to think about the numbers, can one say motorcyclists are being discriminated on the road ?

[Arcfire]

With these kind of stats.... I would say without a doubt YES.

 

Anyone who looks at these numbers and say that motorcyclists are not being discriminated against are plain shallow.

 

What can these puny numbers show? More motorcyclists die... Yay! That is about all folks. You are only looking at the tip of the iceberg.

 

There is no mention of the causes of the fatalities. Own or due to other road users? Even investigations are flawed so what makes any of these stats remotely justified?

 

Think hard..... Lorry runs down 3 motorcyclists, killing them. motorcyclist self skids, head hits tree and dies... All these all fall under fatalities....BUT do they make a difference? A hell of alot.

 

From the above stats, you can only say that motorcyclist are more at risk tat is all. All the more they are easily discriminated against.

[spaiduhz]

if a bike and a bicyle involve in an accident. (let presume it is the bicyle who are the rackless. both bike e brake and and bicyle guy fall down becos of this e braking). who do u think it is going to be pin down if it involve in tp? (let presume again that the fall of the bicyle guy is self fall down and he didn't really ram into you or etc). ya. that's ride. the moto bike person are mostlike the one going to be awarded with demerit and fine (moto bike are the one with an engine, thus the moto bike is most likely the one to be in the wrong).

 

Do you feel unfair? i presume u do.

 

Now let put this case in to a car and a moto bike? the car will most likely be pin as the wrong party. do you feel unfair? I presume u do too.

 

The moral of this story is, our rules and law are make. however, if the enforcer didn't really put the whole heart to learn about the true, (this stagement is base on if only), unjust may appear.

 

To go into further detail... i believe that bicycles deserve to have a place on the roads... PROVIDED!!! that they follow some important procedures.

 

1. For gods sakes install blinkers. White on the front and red on the back. Motorists cant dodge you if they cant see you in the first damned place. I lost count of the number of times i nearly hit workers cycling in the dark with no blinkers nor reflectors on. ps, reflectors are useless imho.

 

2. dont take up the entire freaking lane. No one is forcing you to cycle within the yellow lines and risk slipping on steel drain covers, just keep to the left of the lane. i freaking hate groups of people who cycle in twos... and chat together happily, swerving occasionally into the next lane. for gods sakes want to die dont involve other people lar.

 

3. use your ****ing brains. just because a motorist knows you are there doesnt mean that you can just swerve infront of him, expecting him to brake on time. Several times in jurong west (near the mrt line construction area) moronic cyclists scare the **** out of me by cycling in the middle of the street, in the opposite direction, in a corner, where the safety walls makes seeing ahead difficult. WTF?

 

/me strokes his trusty ol steel GT mountain bike and reminisces the old days. Never had a problem with motorists. Must be because i had some friggin common sense. probably i know of my own vulnerability on the road... and kept MYSELF safe.

 

 

Anyways there was this one time where some pissant lady on a luxury SUV decided that she needs four lanes to make a U-Turn and cut into my lane when i was travelling straight on the inner lane. I didnt have time to dodge her, and i hit her side. ****ing spectators were tutting at me even though it was obvious i had the right of way. ****ing ah pek and auntie go read up on highway code before deciding whose fault it is lar. kan nin na.

[bensonloo]

It is dangerous to always think that motorcyclist are discriminated when using the road, because this will lead to complacent, and you will think that other road users must respect your right as motorcyclist, and they must behave properly while on the road.

 

It is not the case in life, and on the road, every road users think only about theri own safety first before the safety of others, this if life.

 

Why the press or the public percived the motorcyclist as always speed, cutting lanes, riding in between lanes ,etc. Look at the number of fatal accident against the total no of motorcycles in singapore, the rate is so much higher than other type of vehicles.

 

It is in our interest to take care of our safety on the road and beware of other reckless road users for the shake of our own safety.

 

No point crying loud about discrimination because the bikers are a minority and insignificant group of road users, other road users will no give a damn to our problems.

 

As long as the accident/fatality rate remain higher than other road users, it is the failure on our part as bikers to protect ourself.

 

sometimes luck do play a part even you have taken every precaution and accident do happen, but that is very rare and if that happened, that is life, fate.

 

No offence bro. my opinion after 30 years of riding/driving.

[Pplater]

This survery is biased and the results is unrepresentative of the local road using community. This is because it presents the subjects with a biased piece of article before polling. A proper survey should be neutral. Also, because it is being asked in a bikes forum, it is natual that most bikers will conform to what others feel.

 

However.... I also agree.. motorcyclists are slightly biased against. Cause i ride mah...